Theoretical question: Mk4 Golf GTi Vs LCR

[TimBarratt]

Just looking at some of the above I am lost for works. How can the Golf GTi with it overly praised chassis and grip be SO far behind the LCR when it puts its power down so much better. OK so there is weight and the issue of 25 horses at play but even still, from all the hype you would expect the Golf to be able to match the Leon as the Civic has done.

None of these times say whether the track was wet or dry. That will make a huge difference.

 

[acidstrato]

im not really sure what to believe...after all the C4 VTS is up there with an elise and a vanquish... so should we say a C4 has as good handling as them?... hmmm

doesn't really tell you anything

 

[warren_cox]

the golf GTi mk5 / honda civic type r / LCR / Megane 225 / clio were all tested on the same day in the same weather as part of a hot hatch group test. I appreciate some of the cars will have been affected by the wet (Honda S2000 for sure).

Are times up on the board posted by 2 different Stigs? Also I'm sure over time they must find better and better lines on the track (cutting the corner before Gambon for instance)

 

[RobM]

Two things you need to bear in mind looking at that board....

Firstly, as already mentioned, it doesn't state whether it's a dry, wet or somewhere inbetween track.

Secondly, Stig V.2 is quicker than Stig V.1 and it doesn't state who was driving which car.

So I wouldn't rely on those times too much to be honest.

 

[wilksy]

agree wiv robm two different drivers and the weather and that i would say the c4 is up there cos citroens are tin cans so quite light weightbut look up the list lcr,ctr and a like are quicker than said elise.

 

[Cupra Ross]

There was a post a little while back that listed all the Top Gear power lap times. The LCR was marginally quicker than the MkIV Golf R32 (I checked because my mate has one and reckoned it would destroy my LCR round a track......before I showed him that). That Golf is 237 bhp with 4wd so I think that suggests the handling/setup on MkIV Golfs is just not as good as on LCRs

I had a bit of a tussle with a Mk5 Golf R32 on the A43 autobahn in my last Leon. My car was remapped, milltek etc and dyno'd by Star Performance at 221 bhp and 250 lbs/ft of torque. Was doing roughly 120 in the outside lane and he pulled to the middle lane to try and undertake me. Down went the foot and he couldn't get past. I was up to 150 mph indicated before he started to claw a little bit of distance back. If it had been a twisty back road, he'd have destroyed me with no problems but on the gently curved autobahn it was all he could do to keep up. His face was a picture, bless him

My last Leon was producing a good bit more torque than a 225 LCR so it may have been a bit easier for the Mk5 R32 against a standard LCR. Mk4 wouldn't have a look in IMO.

 

[Snoopie]

There is more to performance than straight line speed!

That couldn't have been better said. But as I've never driven a Golf MK4, Yet I've driven a few remapped 1.8 20v Turbo's, I can comment on straight line speed which refers to one of the original questions.
It would be pointless for me to give out information on a car's handling, yet never driven it.

Cheers

 

[cuprablue]

the R32 are meant to handle amazingly

Compared to what?

Lets put this in to context shall we. Irrespective of whether it was wet or dry or V1 or V2 stig any Golf based platform car isn't going to handle "amazingly" in the grand scheme of true sports cars.

The Original Golf handled well (for the times) later versions got progressively worse as they gained more weight and the Mk IV is well accepted as being the absolute worst of the lot.

cuprablue

 

[DPJ]

Couldn't find the post but here is the list. There are 2 R32 times. I'm assuming the slower one is the MIV time and the quicker is the MkIV. In fact the 3 second difference between the MkIV and MkV is quite surprising considering they have the same engine (although in the MkV it is about 10bhp more powerful).

1. 1:17.6 – Koenigsegg CCX (w/TG wing)
2. 1:18.4 – Pagani Zonda F
3. 1:18.9 – Maserati MC12
4. 1.19.0 – Enzo Ferrari
5. 1:19.5 – Ariel Atom 2 300
6. 1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT
7. 1:20.4 – Koenigsegg CCX (Original)5
8. 1:20.7 – Ascari KZ1
9. 1:20.9 – Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
10. 1:21.9 – Ford GT
11. 1:22.3 – Ferrari 360 CS
12. 1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS
13. 1:22.4 – Chevrolet Corvette Z06
14. 1:22.5 – Noble M15
15. 1:22.6 – Westfield XTR25
16. 1:22.9 – Ferrari F430 F1
17. 1:23.2 – Ferrari F430 Spider F1
18. 1:23.7 – Lamborghini Murciélago
19. 1:23.8 – Pagani Zonda C12 S 7.31
20. 1:23.9 – Koenigsegg CC8S
21. 1:24.3 – Prodrive P2
22. 1:24.6 – TVR Sagaris
23. 1:24.8 – Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR FQ-400
24. 1:24.8 – TVR Tuscan Mk.II
25. 1:25.0 – Noble M12 GTO-3R
26. 1:25.1 – Lotus Exige S
27. 1:25.7 – Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder
28. 1:25.8 – Lamborghini Gallardo2
29. 1:25.9 – Morgan Aero 8 GTN
30. 1:26.0 – BMW Z4 M Roadster
31. 1:26.0 – Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR FQ-320
32. 1:26.2 – BMW M5
33. 1:26.4 – Lotus Exige1
34. 1:26.7 – Porsche Cayman S
35. 1:26.8 – Chevrolet Corvette
36. 1:26.8 – Ferrari 575M Maranello HGTC
37. 1:26.9 – Mercedes-Benz CLS55 AMG
38. 1:27.1 – Aston Martin Vanquish S
39. 1:27.1 – Aston Martin DB9
40. 1:27.2 – Porsche 911 GT32
41. 1:27.3 – Spyker C8 Spyder
42. 1:27.5 – TVR T350c
43. 1:27.9 – Wiesmann MF 3
44. 1:28.0 – BMW M3 CSL2
45. 1:28.2 – Marcos TSO GT2
46. 1:28.5 – Dodge Viper SRT-102
47. 1:28.6 – MG XPower SV
48. 1:28.7 – Porsche Boxster S
49. 1:28.9 – Porsche 911 Carrera S3
50. 1:28.9 – Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII5
51. 1:29.0 – Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG
52. 1:29.0 – Alpina V8 Roadster2
53. 1:29.0 – Lamborghini Murciélago1, 5
54. 1:29.4 – Subaru Impreza WRX STi WR-1
55. 1:30.0 – Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 3.7
56. 1:30.1 – Subaru Impreza WRX STi5
57. 1:30.1 – Vauxhall Monaro VXR
58. 1:30.4 – Aston Martin DB7 GT
59. 1:30.4 – Volkswagen Golf R32
60. 1:30.9 – Audi S4 quattro 4.2
61. 1:31.0 – Porsche 911 Turbo2
62. 1:31.3 – Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
63. 1:31.6 – Honda NSX Type-R2
64. 1:31.8 – BMW M3
65. 1:31.8 – BMW 535d
66. 1:31.8 – Nissan 350Z
67. 1:31.8 – Mazda RX-8
68. 1:31.9 – BMW 130i
69. 1:32.2 – Ford Focus RS
70. 1:32.2 – Mazda6 MPS
71. 1:32.5 – Lotus Esprit V8
72. 1:32.5 – Renaultsport Mégane 225 Cup
73. 1:32.7 – Audi TT quattro 3.2
74. 1:32.8 – Modernized Jaguar E-Type
75. 1:32.8 – Facelifted Honda Civic Type-R
76. 1:32.9 – SEAT León Cupra R
77. 1:32.9 – Mercedes-Benz SLK350
78. 1:33.0 – Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG2
79. 1:33.0 – Vauxhall Astra VXR
80. 1:33.1 – Noble M12 GTO2
81. 1:33.3 – Volkswagen Golf R32
82. 1:33.3 – Cadillac CTS-V2
83. 1:33.7 – MG ZT 260
84. 1:33.8 – Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
85. 1:33.9 – Holden Monaro2
86. 1:34.0 - Renaultsport Mégane 225
87. 1:34.2 – MINI Cooper S Works
88. 1:34.5 – Ford Mondeo ST220
89. 1:34.9 – Ford Focus ST4
90. 1:35.0 – Volvo S60 R
91. 1:35.1 – Volkswagen Golf GTI
92. 1:35.2 – Ferrari 575M Maranello3,5
93. 1:35.3 – Vauxhall Vectra VXR
94. 1:35.6 – Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
95. 1:35.6 – Lotus Elise2
96. 1:35.8 – Citroen C4 VTS
97. 1:36.2 – Aston Martin V12 Vanquish3,5
98. 1:36.2 – Renault Clio3
99. 1:36.5 – Honda Civic Type-R
100. 1.37.0 – Porsche Boxster2
101. 1.37.3 – BMW Z4 3.0i2
102. 1.37.4 – Honda S20002
103. 1:37.9 – Saab 9-5 HOT Aero
104. 1:38.0 – Maserati 3200 GT2
105. 1:39.4 – Bowler Wildcat
106. 1:40.8 – Bentley Arnage T2
107. 1:44.0 – Overfinch 580 S2
108. 1:46.0 – Aston Martin DB5

The figures for the new TT, Brera and RX8 on Sunday were in the 1:31 - 1:32 region, weren't they? Says a lot for the older LCR technology don't you think?

 

[Boz]

Nissan almera GTi ????

ESCORT GTi!!!!! 1.8 slow wagon, 130ish bhp if ur lucky hahaha

 

[LiCkWiD]

Mk4 GTi handling stinks. One of the major reasons why I didn't buy one.

IMO, the LRC would take it. Time and time again. The Mk4 GTi is lazy and wallowy.