Tuning the Ibiza - THEE thread

[surcalation]

Right after seeing the odd few posts of late with people wanting to know how much they can tune their ibiza's I think its time we had one thread to help. This would help cut down on the magical mystery tour of the mk2 section to find out about what they can do I think its time we had ONE thread.

So after my quick search if 30mins is quick after reading most things and getting lost with technical words (yes I am simple) I thought it was time to compile a list. Like this

2litre 8v – 115bhp Standard
2-4bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
5-7bhp Stainless steel Exhaust and sports cat
10bhp Remap and chip

2litre 16v Tuning – 150bhp Standard
2-4bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
5-7bhp Stainless steel Exhaust and sports cat
10bhp Remap and chip

1.4litre 8v Tuning – 60bhp
1bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
1bhp Stainless steel Exhaust

Now before you all dive in pulling it to pieces this needs to be some form of working list in which people can get a rough idea. Yes I know the power gains might not be totally correct including the 1.4 as its probably negative gains but anyways.

In terms of the above list more so for 2l 8v and 16v where would you factor in the gains of cam's, port and polished head into the equation and a guestimate of bhp for the sake of agreeing to disagree. Be nice to work on some ball park figures if not totally accurate just to give the idea chance. Puttin 50bhp shot of NOS would be a chav like answer so please don't

Hopefully this thread will lead to a world of knowledge being pulled into one place and people can be directed here in the future. Plus I will use it to fill out my website

**brummy this was my idea

 

[Chrisdaman]

you missed the 1.8 16v Gti mate - 139bph standard

Hoffman sports catalytic converter (200 c.p.i) (up to +12bhp)
Stainless steel straight through exhaust
BMC CDA (4bhp max)

those are what i've done, i'm gna say around 140bhp for mine after those mods

would be good to know where to get a lightened flywheel?

 

[surcalation]

2litre 8v – 115bhp Standard
2-4bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
5-7bhp Stainless steel Exhaust and sports cat
10bhp Remap and chip

2litre 16v Tuning – 150bhp Standard
2-4bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
5-7bhp Stainless steel Exhaust and sports cat
10bhp Remap and chip

1.8 16v - ???bhp standard
8-12bhp Hoffman sports catalytic converter (200 c.p.i)
5-7bhp Stainless steel straight through exhaust
2-4bhp BMC CDA (Enclosed induction kit)

1.4litre 8v Tuning – 60bhp
1bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
1bhp Stainless steel Exhaust

Cheers Chris I do believe there is a thread about a lightened fly wheel but cant remember if it said about where to get one when I was searching for tuning information.

What would throttle bodies do.

 

[Jamin Berry]

Lightend flywheel does nothing for power, but its delivery.

 

[Chrisdaman]

helps the engine rev better, all round mod, as well as ported and polished inlet, and head, ported and polished throttle body

throttle bodies also a good power gainer for the valver engines, F2_Stu was running aroung 200bhp i think, that's a 50bhp gain, and you can buy the whole kit together

 

[RobT]

putting throttle bodies on an otherwise std engine wont get you much of an increase, but as you tune the engine further they become necessary to realise the full potential of the modifications - my 2L16V engine made 236hp at Awesome, on 45mm DTH TB's, and I know it would make approx 12-15hp more top end going up to 48's or 50's - but I would loose midrange and since I dont have a £7K sequential gearbox, I went for the midrange option.

 

[surcalation]

so to get it to 236 with TB's what mods did you need to have in place pre TB.

Would you say TB would be the stage 2 of tuning for example?

 

[jenk]

Surely you cant just say certain bolt on stuff will give you x amount of bhp.

 

[surcalation]

Surely you cant just say certain bolt on stuff will give you x amount of bhp.

It's a rough idea To help give people a clue

 

[RobT]

its the overall package which is the key, add certain bits together in a certain way and the sum > the parts, some bits dont go well together, some do, lots of trial and error and experience needed and thats why big power engines cost lots of money. Any 2L 16V engine making over 230hp is a very serious bit of kit and not something I would expect an amateur to come up with. When my old engine was getting a bit sick and I wanted a bit more power, I spent maybe a year working out costs and researching who were the main players in the vw 2L 16V game. I came to the conclusion that for over 230hp I needed to buy an engine from a top outfit and I dont believe anyone in the UK can do this for reasonable money, there is just not that much interest in the vw engine here and lots with for eg. ford and vauxhall. So I bought an engine from a chap in Holland, I'm not saying who as he doesn't want to be advertised but he makes euro rallycross winners and was recommended to me by the guy who originally designed the vw F3 engines. My engine is a mid range tune, he does them up to 260/270hp which is where the factory were with this engine. And they are not cheap but I did the sums and reckon that its a cheaper and lower risk method of getting where I wanted to go than trying myself.

This engine has an awful lot of special bits

Big valve head with stainless valves, special springs and titanium caps
High compression forged pistons with cutouts for high valve lift
Steel billet Cat Cams, very high lift
Carillo rods
Dry sump
Ceramic coated 4 branch manifold with custom 2.5" system
45mm DTH Badger-5 throttle bodies, pipercross airbox, big jetex cone filter
Luminition 451 ECU
Ali flywheel, spec clutch
etc etc etc

I have had the car for 7 yrs and its been a constant development exercise, even when you buy quality parts it can still go wrong and it takes ages to sort things out.

There is a guy called Esses3 I seem to recall who has, or at least used to have, a cracking abf 16V and he got about 200hp without tb's, see if you can find info out about this, very impressive motor, good value, still very much a road car, good example

 

[gregclarks]

I did this on Excel quickly to demonstrate how i feel the mods i have (or want) may realistically be of Value.

Obviously this is not scientific at all, but i have put a typical price down (or a typical ebay price)
The listed the potential benefit / impact from 1 being low to 10 being high, not only on bhp but also looks, any kind of benefit. like door handles colour coding, didnt cost much but looks great.

Value is then the benefit / cost x 1000 (just to get a whole number)

Any comments?

Mod ** Cost ** Benefit ** Value (B/Cx1000)
Weight Save £1 10 10000
Induction Kit £50 9 180
Springs £60 9 150
CC Door Handles £40 5 125
Wheel Spacers £40 5 125
Short Shift £60 7 117
Strut Braces £70 8 114
SS Exhaust £90 10 111
Suspension £90 9 100
Wheel refurb £50 4 80
De-Cat £80 6 75
Ecotek £20 1 50
SparkPlugs £25 1 40
ARBs £250 9 36
Exhaust Manifold £200 6 30
Inlet Manifold £40 1 25
Chip £250 6 24
Blueprint £150 3 20
Brakes £450 5 11​

 

[surcalation]

Interesting read that rob Can understand the time and effort gone into yours!

So I would say yours is probably stage 3/4 if I can differentiate tuning an engine into stages.

So as an example:

Stage 1 Tune:
2-4bhp Panel filter and good cold air feed
5-7bhp Stainless steel Exhaust and sports cat
10bhp Remap and chip

Stage 2 Tune:
TB's
Ali flywheel
Uprated clutch

Stage 3 Tune:
Big valve head with stainless valves, special springs and titanium caps
High compression forged pistons with cutouts for high valve lift
Steel billet Cat Cams, very high lift
Carillo rods
Dry sump
Ceramic coated 4 branch manifold with custom 2.5" system

Or are my stages wrong here?
Is there a way of setting out a progression trend between stages?
What groups of mods would you do together? Stage one seems easiest with a air filter, exhaust, and chip

Or is all of the above too much to make simple?

 

[Saul]

i thinks its better to set yourself an end result when tuning an NA engine as its harder to progress from 'stage 1' to stage '3' as a lot of the things you will have bought will need replacing

 

[edc]

The whole idea of 'stages' is quite pap to be honest. It's just a way that companies can neatly package products to make them easier to sell.

What you categorise in to which 'stage' is quite arbitrary anyway.

To bundle everthing you have under 'stage 3' does it no justice. It would probably be more accurate but just as arbitrary to call it 'stage 250'.

 

[surcalation]

Fair point then ed so in light of that what increments would be best?

Say for the 2l 8v running a standard 115bhp.
Stage one 150 bhp, stage 2 175bhp, stage 3 200+bhp

Say for the 2l 16v running a standard 150bhp.
Stage one 175 bhp, stage 2 200bhp, stage 3 225+bhp

or am I just grouping things again?
Stages being, "I want to get to 200bhp with my 16v so I need to buy, x, y, z etc

 

[edc]

IMO you are better off with a different approach altogether, much like what Saul has written. You want a car/engine/package for X purpose. You want Y power and Z charactersitics/delivery. You have A budget. At least this way you can get what is appropriate.

 

[surcalation]

Ok then so if I was to put together some scenario's would it be possible to collectively decide how each way would be done so that future members can say well I want a setup like x and I can now see what I want to do.

First scenario can be "I have a 2l 16v and I would like to hit the 200bhp mark and still be able to drive it daily. Am I gonna get this realistically or would I be better off going for an engine conversion. What prices would be involved to get the current 16v engine to 200bhp if I really really really didnt want to go the engine conversion route?"

 

[RobT]

SBD are an excellent engine outfit - take a look at their site

http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm

also Mountune

http://www.mountuneonline.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=190

What is usual is X engine with Y power = £ABC. The parts needed to tune different engines to different percentage increases vary from engine to engine and thus so does the cost. If you have the freedom to pick any engine, such as maybe in a kit car, then you could choose the cheapest one of the right weight with the most power potential / £ spent.

 

[RobT]

a genuine 180-200hp is doable on an abf with a good head, schrick 268 cam on inlet side, exhaust, K+N panel filter, remap and a proper setup - the more careful and particular you are, the higher the power figs will be, like matching inlet and exhaust manifolds to the head and flowing them also as the head, making sure every valve is seated perfectly for max compression, making sure the bottom end is in a1 condition etc etc. Standalone ecu will help also (as will a person who can set up said ecu)

in reality, most engines in this tune make nearer 180 than 200 but the better ones will be very near 200.

Over 200 starts to cost.....TB's, high compression pistons, madder cams, special this that and the other - and the milage you get goes down - my valve springs for eg need changing after 5000 miles

serious buisness, 260hp engines need rebuilds after 1000 or so miles

300hp engines.....one or two races max

 

[surcalation]

I think your answer there is going kill off many a people's dreams of making big power from the Ibiza's engine unless they are going to use it properly like yourself i.e. racing/track weapon

In my simpleness with things like this it would seem that if you want over 200bhp your better off doing a engine swap for a 1.8 2OVT or selling your car and actually buying a mk3 with one already in.