"VW scandal": 1.4 ACT PETROL ENGINE

[stu_m]

Forget the statistics! 90 percent are made up! Plus it's getting close to Christmas some people won't want to buy a car!

The market fluctuates constantly and it may have nothing to do with the scandal

 

[andy_l]

A few years ago we had the 'flexi wings' controversy in Formula 1 where designers exploited the fact that aerodynamic parts, which were supposed to run a certain minimum height from the tarmac, were only tested by the rule makers with a static weight. By engineering the parts to have a non-linear reaction under aerodynamic load, they could pass the static FIA tests but at racing speeds run closer to the tarmac with better performance. Subsequently the FIA improved its testing regime and the flexi wing thing went away.

Like the F1 teams, VAG have utilised clever engineering to beat the woefully inadequate vehicle tests. The ethics of this are certainly highly questionable, especially given the real world impact on air quality and greenhouse gas levels. However I can't really comprehend the arguably disproportionate reaction to this 'scandal'. Who seeks to gain from seeing one of the largest global car manufacturers have 20 odd billion dollars wiped from its value overnight?....

Whilst I do empathise with those that may see some knock-on effect on the residuals, the collective memory is short. Ford Pinto anyone?

 

[TonyFSC]

Like the F1 teams, VAG have utilised clever engineering to beat the woefully inadequate vehicle tests. The ethics of this are certainly highly questionable, especially given the real world impact on air quality and greenhouse gas levels. However I can't really comprehend the arguably disproportionate reaction to this 'scandal'. Who seeks to gain from seeing one of the largest global car manufacturers have 20 odd billion dollars wiped from its value overnight?....

Whilst I do empathise with those that may see some knock-on effect on the residuals, the collective memory is short. Ford Pinto anyone?

Not quite true; F1 exploited an inadequacy in the tests; VAG have deliberately cheated the tests.
A bit like F1 putting a 'stiff' wing on the car for the tests and then changing to a 'floppy' one for the race.
However I do take some of your points.
Tony

 

[andy_l]

Not quite true; F1 exploited an inadequacy in the tests; VAG have deliberately cheated the tests.
A bit like F1 putting a 'stiff' wing on the car for the tests and then changing to a 'floppy' one for the race.
However I do take some of your points.
Tony

I agree with your distinction. However I'd still argue that the inadequacy of the testing methodology (for instance predictable throttle input, no steering movement etc.) allowed VAG to identify when a vehicle was under test and adjust parameters accordingly to ensure it complied. European emissions testing is even more unrealistic.

Either way, this represents a serious Engineering Ethics issue within whichever company developed the defeat code.

 

[Dr.Dash]

I don't think assuming these threads to be about "ambulance chasers" is helpful. Reality is that this has had an influence on sales...

So whilst there are people that are not bothered by the finances of what is a significant purchase, there are others who have balance a family car with costs and consider residuals.

I think you may have misunderstood me. "Ambulance chasers" being a euphemism for the legal companies who pursue compensation claims. They are already getting going, just google "VW class action uk".
Hence my comment was not directed at prospective private buyers who you rightly point out are the ones who'll take the financial hit if they proceed with a purchase.

Forget the statistics! 90 percent are made up!...

89.4% actually .
I'm sure the SMMT will be delighted to learn their stats are rubbish . The figures represent actual sales and the scale of decline is way beyond any deviation in the data set.

 

[Aardvark]

Hahahahahaha... lol

Made me laugh out loud!

Is this my 2.0l ST FR TDi?

 

[philhoward]

Just spotted this : http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/378335-road-tax-co2-banding/#entry4438918

1.4TDI, 1.6TDI, 2.0TDI and 1.4 ACT affected.

 

[Dr.Dash]

Just spotted this : http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/378335-road-tax-co2-banding/#entry4438918

1.4TDI, 1.6TDI, 2.0TDI and 1.4 ACT affected.

SEAT have sent out an identical letter. It's an attempt to limit their future liability, you'd have to be mad to sign it IMO.

Fairly standard practice with such situations but won't do VAG/SEAT's reputation any good, a few people might sign it so there's the benefit for VAG, the rest will refuse and start to renegotiate...
____________________________________________________________________________________

Here's the letter for those who've not seen it.

Dear [INSERT CUSTOMER TITLE & SURNAME]

On behalf of Volkswagen Group UK Ltd and [INSERT DEALER NAME] we want to be open and transparent with you concerning a potential increase to the published CO2 emissions and fuel consumption figures in the brochure and marketing materials you may have seen for the brand and model you are interested in buying. Please accept our sincere apologies for this situation.

As discussed with the Sales team, the standardised CO2 and consumption values for this model are currently under review and may change. We want to make it clear to you that it may be necessary to publish revised, and potentially increased, values in the near future.

To the extent that CO2 values and fuel consumption are relevant for the purposes of tax, this increase might affect the amount of tax that is payable. We want to make clear to you that the Volkswagen Group has informed the relevant Government authorities of this issue and intends to settle those potential additional taxes.

The Volkswagen Group will contact you with further information if your vehicle is affected as soon as more detail is available.

We would like to assure you that all affected vehicles, including yours, remain technically safe and roadworthy in relation to this issue. Further, the affected vehicles have been approved by independent approval authorities and can continue to be used on the road without any restrictions.

Yours sincerely,

[INSERT HEAD OF BUSINESS / DEALER PRINCIPLE NAME]
Customer signature to confirm receipt of letter_______Nochance:birdy:_______________
[INSERT CUSTOMER NAME] [DATE]

 

[sootytorques]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1151113...ies-co2-offenders-from-audi-seat-skoda-and-vw

 

[Bogwoppit]

A full list has been released, with the 1.4 ACT, the Leon hatchback and the Sports Coupe are affected but the Sports Tourer is not:

https://www.volkswagen-media-servic..._of_critical_CO2_vehicles_model_year_2016.pdf

Info came from here:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volksw...s-with-incorrect-mpg-and-co2-ratings-revealed

 

[villa chris]

should i be worried about this.i ordered my 1.4 tsi fr a couple of weeks ago.it will be a 16 plate but im sure they said all new cars wont be affected.is that right?

 

[Dr.Dash]

should i be worried about this.i ordered my 1.4 tsi fr a couple of weeks ago.it will be a 16 plate but im sure they said all new cars wont be affected.is that right?

That statement applied to diesel vehicles I believe.
The issue with the petrol engines is that the emissions figures will be revised. Those currently awaiting delivery of built cars have been sent a letter [see post above], by the time yours gets built the revised figures will probably be published.

That may or may not have direct financial consequences depending on how you are buying and if company car tax (BIK) is relevant to you.

For a private buyer then it bears thinking about owing to the unexpected and avoidable reduction in residuals. Options are:
1. Don't complete on the agreement. You'll have good reason to expect your full deposit and associated costs back.

2. Renegotiate (price/add-ons etc).

3. Complete as agreed and accept the reduced residual.

Secondhand prices are clearly on the slide, looking online yesterday a number of dealers had price reductions of 1-2k on nearly new vehicles whilst a couple of the brokers appear to have stopped offering the 150ps 1.4 engined Leons.

We'll see if SEAT follow VW's lead on "loyalty bonuses" [see Bogwoppit's Autocar link above] and exactly how they will apply it. HTH

 

[philhoward]

Given the 1.4 ST has already been "revised" to 111g, maybe that is the new figure?

 

[KenTT]

Given the 1.4 ST has already been "revised" to 111g, maybe that is the new figure?

The ST must be slightly heavier therefore it stands to reason that the CO2 figures would be slightly higher.

 

[mrbugle]

It's odd, I have the 1.4 ACT but you enter the VIN on the SEAT website and it says it's not affected..
Could the website be out of date?

 

[Dr.Dash]

Details of VW's Loyalty Bonus

In short
up! £400
Polo £500
Golf £1000

It's odd, I have the 1.4 ACT but you enter the VIN on the SEAT website and it says it's not affected..
Could the website be out of date?

The SEAT website I've seen only covers diesel engines? Is there another one somewhere?
They only sent out the letter to those awaiting delivery at the end of the week.

 

[Alakiha]

For me the weird thing is VW and Seat have stopped offering 1.4 ACT engines, there is no sign of them in their websites! but you can order 1.4 ACT for Skoda products!

*I'm in Finland and as far as I checked other countries websites it seems this situation is only in Finland!

 

[andrewpain]

The ST must be slightly heavier therefore it stands to reason that the CO2 figures would be slightly higher.

the ST has a better drag factor as it's more aerodynamic. Shouldn't it therefore be LOWER than the saloon or coupe?

 

[philhoward]

Horses for courses, I guess. Acceleration is conveniently 0.2s different between models (SC < Hatch < ST), which sounds like a guesstimate given the additional weight as the models go up.

 

[Dr.Dash]

According to Reuters it is the Polo and Audi A1 1.4 that are in question, who knows though if it is wider than this.
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0ST0VQ20151104?irpc=932

Well it seems like you were correct most of the petrol engines are affected

"Its latest statement says it has identified “implausible” CO2 data:
-1 litre three-cylinder TSI petrol engine used in the Polo, and Seat Ibiza and Leon hatchbacks,
-Jettas with four-cylinder 1.2 and 1.4-litre TSIs
-1.4 TFSI in the Golf and Passat
-1.8-litre TFSI installed in the Leon SC coupe and Sport Tourer wagon..."

The FT reported that VW will buy back cars which understated CO2 figures by more than 10%, some are reported to have tested at more than that figure already.

should i be worried about this.i ordered my 1.4 tsi fr a couple of weeks ago.it will be a 16 plate but im sure they said all new cars wont be affected.is that right?

Here's a round up in the Mail, covers the dubious "emissions waiver" letter.