mark sheerin said:
Yup - a couple..... so I could actually base my stirring on fact
I'm still sure it couldn't hit 7k even when I drove it.
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Yup - a couple..... so I could actually base my stirring on fact
I'm still sure it couldn't hit 7k even when I drove it.
Nobody's mentioned hydrogen yet. Set a match to that and I bet neither could keep up with ya!
Is the argument for either case a perosnal afront to anyone? If so, me thinks one needs to check one's self one time.
For the record I'm a petrol-head. Partly because diesel heads aren't in the shops yet.
Petrol/diesel/hydrogen/chicken sh*t - who cares, just take what you got and drive!
sicasey said:I cant think of any proper reason why anyone who does more than 4K a year would buy a petrol over a diesel these days......
Modern diesel's are very very quick
MPG faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than petrol
More refined than they used to be - once your moving you cant tell it is a diesel
They hold they value better
I just cant justify spanking a load of cash on feeding a pertrol car's thirst when i can do uber miles in my diesel. Discuss...............
cos I can get >300bhp from my petrol and I hate the smell of diesel personally.
its mighty tempting for a sensible road car mind.
the more I chip the more I actually want one.. EAK!
I personally don't like how the power delivery on a tuned (or i suppose not tuned) diesel, it all arrives in an aggressive lump, with a disgracefull amount of lag.
I like the smooth power delivery that a petrol offers, with a good rev band to play with.....BUT i do get pi$$ed off when i'm at the pump every 3 days.
....Also do you have to wear those stupid disposable gloves when you fill up with diesel?!!?
It's a bit like:-
I like the smooth power delivery that a petrol offers, with a good rev band to play with.....BUT i do get pi$$ed off when i'm at the pump every 3 days.
....Also do you have to wear those stupid disposable gloves when you fill up with diesel?!!?
It's a bit like:-
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I quite like the low done power of my diesel.
I've never got the most from petrol engines 'cos I don't rev them high enough so a diesel is more suited to the way I drive. Plus the milage that I do makes it a more logical choice.
Horses for coarses though. Each appeals to different people in different ways, neither is better or worse in my opinion, just different.
I do have a turbo-charged petrol available as a second car (see sig) so I know about high revving top end power.
I've never got the most from petrol engines 'cos I don't rev them high enough so a diesel is more suited to the way I drive. Plus the milage that I do makes it a more logical choice.
Horses for coarses though. Each appeals to different people in different ways, neither is better or worse in my opinion, just different.
I do have a turbo-charged petrol available as a second car (see sig) so I know about high revving top end power.
[B]Diesel has reached its peak![/B]
And thats a fact, i am an ex diesel user and would happily use one tomorrow if only for the fuel economy.
However i have spoken on more than one occasion of applying the same technology to Petrol engines. I mean you look at how far ahead of petrol the Diesel engine has jumped, its quite amazing. But now it seems the tide is turning.
I read with great interest a full 6 page review of the new Golf GT, the 1.4 Super Turbo Petrol. It seems that this engine s the start of the petrol revoloution. Performance VW said it provides the same pep as a modern TDi, but without all the downsides of Diesel, along with 49mpg, Auto car said " this is the new Diesel and the future" and Autoexpress were of equal praise.
I have nothing against Diesels, but with this new technology to achieve the same torque and fuel economy from petrol will there be a need for Diesels. I seriously think not. Diesels are a revelation at the moment, but it seems this is peaking and Petrol is now playing its tech break through, this GT from VW is going to change Petrol engines forever. Yu will hear from most manufacturers that they are all moving over to forced induction petrol engines instead of larger CC's. EG VW and the Super T, and Peugeot who are replacing 2 litre petrols with 1.6 turbo's
Diesel is fashionable at the moment, but Petrol is refined and is very quickly catching up, I honestly think Diesel Will the Betamax out of the 2 in 10 years time, sorry boys but it is true.
PS VW have announced that a 2.0 version of 1.4GT will produce 270 bhp but with mid 30's on the Fuel economy, if thats not a revoloution , i don't know what else is. Petrol is coming back.....................
And thats a fact, i am an ex diesel user and would happily use one tomorrow if only for the fuel economy.
However i have spoken on more than one occasion of applying the same technology to Petrol engines. I mean you look at how far ahead of petrol the Diesel engine has jumped, its quite amazing. But now it seems the tide is turning.
I read with great interest a full 6 page review of the new Golf GT, the 1.4 Super Turbo Petrol. It seems that this engine s the start of the petrol revoloution. Performance VW said it provides the same pep as a modern TDi, but without all the downsides of Diesel, along with 49mpg, Auto car said " this is the new Diesel and the future" and Autoexpress were of equal praise.
I have nothing against Diesels, but with this new technology to achieve the same torque and fuel economy from petrol will there be a need for Diesels. I seriously think not. Diesels are a revelation at the moment, but it seems this is peaking and Petrol is now playing its tech break through, this GT from VW is going to change Petrol engines forever. Yu will hear from most manufacturers that they are all moving over to forced induction petrol engines instead of larger CC's. EG VW and the Super T, and Peugeot who are replacing 2 litre petrols with 1.6 turbo's
Diesel is fashionable at the moment, but Petrol is refined and is very quickly catching up, I honestly think Diesel Will the Betamax out of the 2 in 10 years time, sorry boys but it is true.
PS VW have announced that a 2.0 version of 1.4GT will produce 270 bhp but with mid 30's on the Fuel economy, if thats not a revoloution , i don't know what else is. Petrol is coming back.....................
m0rk said:Yup - a couple..... so I could actually base my stirring on fact
I'm still sure it couldn't hit 7k even when I drove it.
lol...
The power band may be short in terms of revs...ie 2500-4500 rpm may seem small compared to 3000-7000 in a petrol car but that hides the full story.
The petrol seemingly has 2000 rpm more to play with but the way the cars are geared means...
1st to 40ish
2nd to 60ish
3rd to 90ish
4th to 105ish
5th to etc etc..in both cars so in actuall fact driving a diesel doesn't mean more gearchanges and stirring round the box..in fact given that the performance in the next gear up doesn't significantly deteriorate then you can get away with less gear changes.
Certainlly my wifes Beezer 8v is no match for my diesel and my wifes a3 only just is and ironically only if you stir its box...
I'm not going into a deisel is better than petrol phase because no deisel will ever sound as good as a petrol but then again no modern petrol engines sound as good as my old lancia twin cam from 1978 pooping and spitting on the overun and rasping its exhaust merrily away.
The mpg isn't the be all and end all but it is a big cherry on an equally sizable cake these days..
As a former petrol head...Diesel rules and as for the dump valve thing, if you fit that forge dump valve for diesel to your TDI the whoosh is far louder than any petrol dump valve, simply because the TDI turbo runs at a higher pressure than the diesel. So TDI have more torque and the power is not in a narrow band at all, it just depends how well you keep your turbo spoiled. Having driven a supercharged G60 for that last 3 years and gone to a Turbo Diesel I have changed my driving style, If you keep that turbo spinning at the rate it was designed the TDIs power is long and wind. change the final drive ratio and the diesels would get the top speed to. they do rev lower and that is the only reason that a modern TDI doesnt have the top end. as for running costs we wind hands down on everything
Yep the 1.4 gt new vw engine seems to be the answer..but scratch beneath the surface and then I'm not so sure...
You have a 1.4 engine with both a supercharger and a turbocharger..so therefore..its mechanical reliability and longevity compared to a diesel must be suspect...
The fuelling must be very lean and with a turbo and supercharger it is going to need LOTS of cooling..massive intercooler and big hot / cold weather performance differences as seen allready on petrol turbos..
More bits to go wrong and can a 1.4 pushing out that sort of power last 200k miles?
You have a 1.4 engine with both a supercharger and a turbocharger..so therefore..its mechanical reliability and longevity compared to a diesel must be suspect...
The fuelling must be very lean and with a turbo and supercharger it is going to need LOTS of cooling..massive intercooler and big hot / cold weather performance differences as seen allready on petrol turbos..
More bits to go wrong and can a 1.4 pushing out that sort of power last 200k miles?
mark sheerin said:
Nope has gone through all the testing any diesel engine would and thye have done over 300000km on each engine with no reliabilty issues at all, has seen no need for special servicing schedules or special oils, You hardly think VW would put their name to a dud engine,
It looks like this is the answer to the diesel.
Oh and yes you are right about winter summer variations, well almost, the GT comes with a Winter button to use in wintery conditions and helps lower the torque levels so the car is still drivable, any bigger than the 1.4 and it is said that the car will need 4wd to cope with the torque.
If Fiat or Renault had designed this technology then i would have been a sceptic. But VW do not usually get things wrong, i mean they brought us the 1.9 PD engine, and they got that bang on, face it, Diesel is of the moment, but the future is petrol.
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i wouldn't think twice about getting a petrol car still, petrols are so much more fun, and ok people might say they are just as quick, but i enjoy a good razzle sometimes at hoigher revs where i don't have to worry about changing due to lack of power!
plus it will get to the point where everybody has them so petrol will come down in price
plus it will get to the point where everybody has them so petrol will come down in price
Well the day a derv can drive/rev and more importantly sound like a big V8, with out pumping out clouds of shite I may consider. Until that point no chance of me getting one.
Shall we close this thread before it gets silly like others have.......
Shall we close this thread before it gets silly like others have.......
the whole reason I became interested in cars, was due to hearing opel manta's, metro 6r4's and mk11 escort bda's coming through a dark wet forrest when I was 16 years old. For some reason this high reving spine tingling noise has stuck with me through my life and has become embedded in my DNA. I personally love to rev an engine and love the feeling of using all the available revs. I fully appreciate what deisels can do, but if there were only diesels left to drive, I dont think I would be a happy bunny.
Streching a car out over a fast long sweeping bend, using a wide band of adjustability gives me great pleasure. Short shifting through spikey lumps of power delivery and lag doesnt really have the same appeal (for me)
Streching a car out over a fast long sweeping bend, using a wide band of adjustability gives me great pleasure. Short shifting through spikey lumps of power delivery and lag doesnt really have the same appeal (for me)
When I was 20, I considered diesels as vans disguised as normal cars, and hadn't the slightest idea how it was to drive one. Then again, didn't have the will as well.
Then, because the diesel price then was 0.60€, while the petrol was priced @ 0.80€, I decided to buy a diesel Ibiza PD110. It ruled !!!! It had a nice torque @ low rpms, and for city driving it was the best. Plus I made alot of miles, so it saved my a lot of €€€.
Now I have a LCR and the Beezer doesn't give me the same thrill, but, to be honest, I'm not sure if a revoed PD160 will be left behind that easily.
And we cannot talk about power because, as we all know, power is calculated using a formula based on torque / rpms. Diesels don't have lot's of HP because they can't rev high, but if we look @ times and top speeds, there's not a BIG difference.
Then, because the diesel price then was 0.60€, while the petrol was priced @ 0.80€, I decided to buy a diesel Ibiza PD110. It ruled !!!! It had a nice torque @ low rpms, and for city driving it was the best. Plus I made alot of miles, so it saved my a lot of €€€.
Now I have a LCR and the Beezer doesn't give me the same thrill, but, to be honest, I'm not sure if a revoed PD160 will be left behind that easily.
And we cannot talk about power because, as we all know, power is calculated using a formula based on torque / rpms. Diesels don't have lot's of HP because they can't rev high, but if we look @ times and top speeds, there's not a BIG difference.
throw enough fuel into a diesel and it will rev , but it will also choke the traffic behind it and will use more than a petrol.
Not exactly. When I pushed my PD110, it would do a bit more smoke than usual, not a black cloud as some think, but that's it. And when doing 200 km/h (stock top speed), it would consume 18 lts each 100 Kms, giving me 450 Km on a deposit.
My LCR when doing 250 Km/h drinks almost 30 lts each 100 Km, so I have a fun trip of 250 Km before I need a visit to the gas station !!!
My LCR when doing 250 Km/h drinks almost 30 lts each 100 Km, so I have a fun trip of 250 Km before I need a visit to the gas station !!!
Diesels can't rev no matter how much you throw into them because unlike a petrol car you can't advance the ignition timing..the diesel will allways fire at tdc..when the charge is compressed.
As the revs increase the power starts to tail because the piston is allready on the downstroke as the explosion occurs...thereby losing power.
Unless someone invents a combustion chamber with a movable head so the compression can be made to occur earlier at higher revs then they will never rev..
They rely on big bangs ...
A diesel power stroke produces more power in its explosive force than a petrol hence its torque.
Now a supercharged diesel...with a turbo..so it will pull from 1000rpm..hmmmm
As the revs increase the power starts to tail because the piston is allready on the downstroke as the explosion occurs...thereby losing power.
Unless someone invents a combustion chamber with a movable head so the compression can be made to occur earlier at higher revs then they will never rev..
They rely on big bangs ...
A diesel power stroke produces more power in its explosive force than a petrol hence its torque.
Now a supercharged diesel...with a turbo..so it will pull from 1000rpm..hmmmm
Ant FR said:
G60 springs to mind. Chargers were notably short lasting by VW standards hence the move to the 1.8t
Where the 1.4 TSI scores in the reliability(?) and useability stakes is the fact that the supercharger is disengaged from the engine once the big(ish) turbo is upto full boosting speed.
Great in a new car but I wouldn't want to own one once the warranty had expired. Time will tell.
As for the petrol vs diesel debate, I think two mile vmax straights and formula one are completely irrelevant to road cars you drive every day - the secret to a good road car is useable performance, which is where a TDI is going to score in todays congested envoironment.
You don't half look and sound stupid revving the tits off a mutlivalve petrol on a busy dual carriageway, plus it's not really socially acceptable these days to blast around your local housing estate at 11pm doing 7000rpm. So yes, it depends on the driver, and I drive a petrol day to day, but have owned a few TDIs and drive them at work and don't find the dervs lacking in any way.
On the subject of turbo lag on re-mapped TDIs - the ones I owned had a bit of lag as standard but absolutely none once modified, in fact my old Tuning boxed 1998 Beezer TDI 90 ended up with almost anti-lag where you only had to breathe on the accelerator pedal and the thing lunged forward, talk about aggressive! And no it wouldn't beat a petrol GTI on 0-60 I concede, but it was mighty impressive coming out of roundabouts with all that torque. You could nail almost anything (we're talking about over five years ago here) out of a roundabout and get well ahead and settle down to a sensible cruising speed
![[B)]](/forums/styles/seatcupra/oldforumsmileys/shades.gif "Cool [B)]")
while you waited for the local boy racer to come screaming past making oh so much effort..... Yeah, another pointless thread, but it's all a pointless argument really. Horses for courses. It's lovely to have massive mid-range grunt, it's also nice to be able to rev-out once in a while, best of all it's nice that we have the choice we have nowadays; You pays your money.......
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end question to sum up, Tuned 1.8T or Tuned 1.9PD
I know which one i would go for, oh and i did, good move Ant, a PD engine will never ever sound or feel the same way as a good Turbo Engine, and lets all remember the 1.8T is still quite a bland engine when you compare it to something like the YB Cossie lump, But Petrol turbo is the best you will ever get. closely followed a by a god V6 engine, mmmmm mmm
I know which one i would go for, oh and i did, good move Ant, a PD engine will never ever sound or feel the same way as a good Turbo Engine, and lets all remember the 1.8T is still quite a bland engine when you compare it to something like the YB Cossie lump, But Petrol turbo is the best you will ever get. closely followed a by a god V6 engine, mmmmm mmm
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