Project Black Mamba - 2009 Leon Cupra

Poko

Active Member
Nov 18, 2009
82
0
Your car sounds very different to my mates one
Massive amounts of traction with very little body roll

is he running stock suspension ?

what is his tune level ?

does he really pushes the car around the corners ?
 

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
I've been on his case for a long time about this, he's had two different spring set ups and now has coilovers, to this he's fitting an LSD, engine mounts, WALK, uprated clutch and flywheel and short shift.

He was more about power than handling but coming round to my way of thinking
 

Talx

Active Member
Nov 29, 2008
99
2
Grate project !

but you could have found a more original name :shrug:

hence my project :whistle:

Leon Cupra project “The Black Mamba”


Anyhow black mambas aren’t black they are silver its only the inside of their mouth that is black so a taipan would be more suitable name for a black car
 

Poko

Active Member
Nov 18, 2009
82
0
Ok , it's time to move on with my project.

I moved to the second phase of my project which also includes some more power mods, but since I am still waiting for parts I will update later.

Right now it was time to start upgrading my suspension setup.

Since the car project definition is a "Race car for the road" I was going to go for an extreme setup ,but one that can still cope with daily driving on Israeli roads, which are not renowned for their paving quality (very bad)

After much contemplation between JIC Cross competition , Bilstein and some TEIN options I have decided to go with KW.

The decision to go with KW is not only due to their high product quality but also because of their amazing technical service which is extremely important in a part like suspension.

Of-course I went for the Club Sports due to the option to have them with pillow top s , camber plates and linear springs.

Pic :
clubsport_box2.jpg


In order to complete this suspension setup I have chosen to go with APR's front and rear anti roll bars , 27mm diameter and with 3 hardness levels :
arb_box.jpg

arb_accessories.jpg

The entire setup :
entire_setup.jpg


And going on the car :
front_kw1.jpg

front_kw2.jpg

rollbar_1.jpg

rear_kw2.jpg

rear_kw1.jpg


Now to the important part, how do they feel.

Let's start with the good stuff.
Body roll becomes something you read about, no matter at what speed , no matter how hard you take the corner, there is absolutely no body roll.

The nose also keeps pointing straight forward, no matter how hard you accelerate or brake, it is absolutely awesome.

handling wise, this is now purely a race car. It feels it just came off the world championship and was allowed to drive on public road, everything is sharp and immediate , nothing like the stock suspension.

However (you knew it was coming didn't you ?)
With Israel's horrible road , such a track based setup is not so ideal for public roads. And I am really not discussing comfort issues here.

The combination of very short suspension travel with extremely quick rebound and damping doesn't allow for safe handling of bumps and potholes , and let me explain.

the car never loses its grip, but the driver does. Without racing harnesses and an FIA approved bucket I have already met the ceiling not once or twice and found myself hanging on to the steering wheel instead of choosing a corner line.

hitting a bump at very high speeds will even cause the car to lift all 4 wheels off the road. The cool thing about it is that the land is perfect and it never reached the bump stop.

all that I could have accepted , but the real problem is the grip , which is too high for the public road.

you have as much traction as you want as long as the tires hold , but once they let go the car will just "jump" a lane until it gets traction again. It will stay composed , but nevertheless you are now in the next lane.

on the race track that is desirable and fine , but on the road , that's not something you wish to happen , especially if there is a car in the lane you just went into.

So what do I do ?
With the help of Pit stop, the local KW distributor we had several long discussions with the MOTORSPORTS division about a solution.

after clarifying that this is really a matter of national security and they are putting the peace in the middle east on the line if they don't sort out my suspension , they have told me to wait a day and they'll get back to me.

after internal discussion they thought that the clubsports can be set up in a good way for my needs , but not excellent , and being German engineers , that wasn't really accepted.

Therefore as I write those lines, the Clubsports are being taken off the car to meet a plane to germany and give birth to a new KW variant.

now you all know Variants 1 , 2 , 3 and the clubsports.

MEET VARIANT POKO :

1) Club sports shell , retaining pillow tops and camber plates.
2) shortened and re-valved V3 shock fitted to CS body.
3) Linear , Race springs with lower spring rate , fitted for the V3 internals.
4) custom tuned for my cars exact weight (by axle) by KW themselves.

I guess that in 3-4 weeks variant Poko will be on the car and I can update you some more on how good they are.

but I must give it to KW for some awesome customer service.
 

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
Very interesting write up there.
I've got the KWV3's (basically the Cubsports but without the adjustable top mounts.
These were designed for the OEM weighted car but as mine is stripped out perhaps there no longer inspecification.
What are they chargeing you to match the car weight with springs?
What do you do to find out the weight of each corner of your car?
 

Poko

Active Member
Nov 18, 2009
82
0
Very interesting write up there.
I've got the KWV3's (basically the Cubsports but without the adjustable top mounts.
These were designed for the OEM weighted car but as mine is stripped out perhaps there no longer inspecification.
What are they chargeing you to match the car weight with springs?
What do you do to find out the weight of each corner of your car?

ClubSports and V3 are very different creatures in terms of shock , springs and basically the entire thing.

as for money issues, it is not really public , but in my case its not just springs , also the entire shock body is going to be re-constructed since the CS's are shorter then V3's and have different tuning knob positions.

as for weighing the car , you are in the uk , right ? got to VW Racing or any other shop who can corner weigh your car. VWR are also in direct link with KW and will be able to offer you different spring rates for the V3.
 

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
ClubSports and V3 are very different creatures in terms of shock , springs and basically the entire thing.

as for money issues, it is not really public , but in my case its not just springs , also the entire shock body is going to be re-constructed since the CS's are shorter then V3's and have different tuning knob positions.

as for weighing the car , you are in the uk , right ? got to VW Racing or any other shop who can corner weigh your car. VWR are also in direct link with KW and will be able to offer you different spring rates for the V3.
Ah okay
 

Poko

Active Member
Nov 18, 2009
82
0
Sorry, so they are.

Had you looked at the Autotec ones?

yes, though i haven't driven a car with them.
i don't recall seeing anything of really high quality about them.

it is very hard for one ARB to stick above another in a brochure.
 

Poko

Active Member
Nov 18, 2009
82
0
Ok , some updates.
As far as the suspension goes, I have decided to re-install the Clubsports as they are and try to work a setup with them since i don't want to compromise on handling.
If after trying the best I will still find them too harsh , than I will go to the uprated V3 conversion.

Engine wise, the car is making progress on getting to stage 2+ and dyno , hopefully some info on that next week , and then its bye bye k04.

In the meantime I have decided , that after almost 1500 miles it was time to change the wheels and tires.

The wheels were changed to LENSO Drag series D1R's at 18X8 with an offset of 38.

The wheels are also painted (original from LENSO) in matte black and although it is not the same shade as mine, it works really nicely.

As for tires, as temps I have installed TOYO R1R in original fitment of 225/40/18. And I must say those tires are a massive improvement over the Dunlop sportmaxx with a treadwear of 140 compared to the dunlop's 280.

Those tires and probably wheels will be changed again as the project moves along , since I am really trying to find in Israel 18.5X18 wheels with an offset of 45 and higher in order to fit 255's.

BTW, at 38 offset and with my height , the wheels rub. But that will be sorted out real soon.
And now for some pics :

wheels5.jpg


wheels6.jpg


wheels7.jpg


Wheels2.jpg


wheels4.jpg
 
Dec 2, 2008
571
1
Nottingham
shaping up nicely, like the ride height, bit concerning that it rubs at the moment though!

Hopefully your developments will help me make some informed choices on upgrades as I like the way your going about it :)

Keep up the good work
 

antonissilver

Guest
Very beautiful calour, it's amazing car painting!!!!!!!!
Very good working in your car.
 
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