engine differences

[PAULTDI67]

Hi ev'ryone peeps just qurious cos i read this other day http://http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=354072#&was wonderin what changes does 150 have 2get 20 hp more than 130? when diesel car tested 150 at launch it said summat about bigger turbo 2 get extra 20 hp but is it just turbo or as in above thread ports@stuff

 

[Muttley]

Bigger turbo internals, higher boost (22psi vs 18), FMIC as standard. The turbo is good for higher boost on remapping too.

 

[PAULTDI67]

just curious cos torque fig's same 4 both whats that 'bout fmic as standardDONT think so mines as it came out o factory&ic's tucked under passengers wing!!

 

[Muttley]

PAULTDI67 scribbled the following word game

Broken up into sentences to try to understand what's being said

just curious cos torque fig's same 4 both ​

TDI130 229lb-ft @ 1900rpm
TDI150 236lb-ft @ 2000rpm

whats that 'bout fmic as standard​

DONT think so mines as it came out o factory&ic's tucked under passengers wing!!​

Then you don't have a TDI 150. I'm not sure what you do have though.

The only TDI 150 engine in Leon 1 or Toledo 2 shell is the ARL engine which has a front mounted intercooler. What's more I know of no Mk.4 Golf platform car that has an intercooler "tucked under the passengers wing".

 

[PAULTDI67]

OOPS in my w/shop manual 4 mk 4 golf it gives same torque figureit also shows how 2 remove intercooler YES IT@S UNDER WING/BUMPER ON PASSENGER SIDE &it's there on my car&its arl engine so dont kno where u get fmic as standard from

PAULTDI67 scribbled the following word game

Broken up into sentences to try to understand what's being said

just curious cos torque fig's same 4 both ​

TDI130 229lb-ft @ 1900rpm
TDI150 236lb-ft @ 2000rpm

whats that 'bout fmic as standard​

DONT think so mines as it came out o factory&ic's tucked under passengers wing!!​

Then you don't have a TDI 150. I'm not sure what you do have though.

The only TDI 150 engine in Leon 1 or Toledo 2 shell is the ARL engine which has a front mounted intercooler. What's more I know of no Mk.4 Golf platform car that has an intercooler "tucked under the passengers wing".

 

[James_R]

No, i repeat no vag mk4 golf platformed tdi car has a single side mount intercooler installed in the near side front arch chamber.

the lesser powered tdis all had a sidemount intercooler installed in the off side arch chamber and the 150s had a large front mount.

best thing to do is bin your workshop manual then go and look in the engine bay at the boost pipes coming from the inlet manifold;

if yours goes towards the front of the engine bay then down into the off side arch - its a 130/110/90 etc

if its a large plastic pipe that goes towards the front of the engine bay then goes across the front of the head, down near the oil filter housing then towards the lower near side of the radiator - its a 150.

muttley probably has a pic of his engine bay, which is a 150.

 

[Muttley]

Ah, yes, pictures would help wouldn't they?

This is the engine bay of my current car, a Toledo TDI 150 Sport. The engine bay of the TDI 150 Leon (FR, Cupra TDI) is the same.

The big pipe that hooks behind the oil filter, round the cambelt end of the engine and into the EGR valve and inlet manifold is the boost pipe coming from the outlet of the FMIC. To see the pipes from the turbo to the inlet of the FMIC you have to get down on the floor and look in the drivers side wheel arch.

For contrast, here's the engine bay of a TDI 110 Toledo.

The boost pipe coming from the SMIC (in the offside front wing) is on the left of the photo, leading to the EGR valve 18.

Here's my old TDI 110 with the bumper off

The SMIC is on the offside. Here's a picture of it from round the side, taken to show the MAP sensor in the top.

PAULTDI67, can you post some pictures of your car? Engine bay, intercooler location if possible, boost pipes and so on? Also the boot with the badges on, and the build sheet sticker, which should be on the floor of the boot under the carpet, or sometimes in the spare wheel well. This is what mine looks like.

Just pictures will be fine. I'm really curious to know what model you have and what engine is really in there.

 

[PAULTDI67]

Ah, yes, pictures would help wouldn't they?

This is the engine bay of my current car, a Toledo TDI 150 Sport. The engine bay of the TDI 150 Leon (FR, Cupra TDI) is the same.

The big pipe that hooks behind the oil filter, round the cambelt end of the engine and into the EGR valve and inlet manifold is the boost pipe coming from the outlet of the FMIC. To see the pipes from the turbo to the inlet of the FMIC you have to get down on the floor and look in the drivers side wheel arch.

For contrast, here's the engine bay of a TDI 110 Toledo.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h23/ardy-photo/underbonnet/enginebay-vac-sol.jpg[/IMG


The boost pipe coming from the SMIC (in the offside front wing) is on the left of the photo, leading to the EGR valve 18.

Here's my old TDI 110 with the bumper off

[IMG]http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h23/ardy-photo/Bumper-off/Front-bumper.jpg

The SMIC is on the offside. Here's a picture of it from round the side, taken to show the MAP sensor in the top.

PAULTDI67, can you post some pictures of your car? Engine bay, intercooler location if possible, boost pipes and so on? Also the boot with the badges on, and the build sheet sticker, which should be on the floor of the boot under the carpet, or sometimes in the spare wheel well. This is what mine looks like.

Just pictures will be fine. I'm really curious to know what model you have and what engine is really in there.

ok muttley engine bay's as in pics plastic pipe goes 2 passenger side of rad stiil sure it'smic sticker on boot floor says it's arl 150 engine no on log book says it's 150 will have 2 check intercooler thingy obviously workshop manual's lyin (i'll keep it tho as it's easier looking it up than turning computer on every time) not sure how 2 put pics up being a thick yorkshire puddin!!!yea read all that in faq's about how 2 but dont understand (not verry techi as u can wok out)

 

[Muttley]

Which manual are you looking at? If it's the Haynes manual, they say that the SMIC is fitted "on the right hand side" - but they mean right hand side as seen from the driver's seat, not as seen from looking into the bonnet: in other words the SMIC for the lower spec. TDI's is on the offside of the car (that's offside for drivers in the UK).

If it still has the ARL engine in then the standard fitment is a FMIC.

Here's a couple of pics from TDIclub of the top edge of the FMIC

Inlet and outlet are both at the bottom of the cooler. Check your offside wheel well and you should see the pancake pipe right at the bottom, feeding towards the intercooler inlet.

I can't find a picture of an ARL-engined car with the bumper off to show the intercooler more clearly, and I'm not about to do mine without a good reason - it's a good few hours work.

The ETKA diagram famously shows the TDI 150 pipework linked to an SMIC - it's clearly wrong, as the pipe orientations are wrong and wouldn't fit an SMIC

The ETKA view is from the front nearside, and if you look at the pipes you can see how they fit into an intercooler across the front of the car.

 

[PAULTDI67]

yea haynes so apart from intercooler what other differences?

 

[Muttley]

To backtrack a little, your first post mentioned the LC VS LCR engine thread - bear in mind that the LCR is a very special car, like nothing else in the VAG range, combining bits of Audi TT, S3, Leon and a few special-to-type bits. Very exotic, for what's outwardly a 4-door hot hatch, and the BHp difference (30 or 45, depending on the exact model) is really quite a lot.

The TDI 150 only has 20 BHp more, and only a little more torque. But peak figures don't tell the whole story: as I said above, the 150 has a larger turbo (GT1749Vb vs GT1749Va) which, with the FMIC, will get more air into the combustion chamber: more air = more fuel from the EMU = a bigger bang. The 150 runs 22 psi boost where the 130 is running 18.

Injectors, valves and camshaft are the same for both engines.

 

[Bondiblu]

Peak torque on the 130PD/150PD is similar at 1900-2000 RPM, but the 150PD due to the larger turbo, can supply more air to support more fuel (maintain AFR's) higher up 3750 - 4000 RPM. This is where the peak BHP is.

PD130 injects ~50mg at 4000RPM and the PD150 injects ~54mg at 4000RPM.