LCR Fog Light Upgrade problem

Muttley

Catch that diesel!
Mar 17, 2006
4,987
31
North Kent
Additional front lamps can only be classed as foglamps if they meet the following conditions:

To be used in used in conditions of seriously reduced visibility in place of the obligatory dipped beam headlamps-
( - - -)
4. Alignment: To the front and so aimed that the upper edge of the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of 75 kg on the driver's seat


It bears repeating that foglamps are *alternative dipped beam headlamps* and so can only be on if the primary headlamps are off (only one pair of dipped beams allowed at a time) and must be arranged not to dazzle - they are dipped by design - 3 percent is more dipped than a dipped-beam headlamp, which must be 1.3 percent down or 2 percent if the headlamp is more that 850mm from the ground

Any deviation from this means that the lamps are extra headlamps (in the old days these used to be called "driving lights" and were used on "sporty" or real rally-cars to augment the seriously poor factory-fit main beam illumination) and not foglamps.

Extra main-beam headlamps ("driving lights") must only come on with main beam and go out if you dip.
(The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989)


Fog lights are about beam pattern: low and wide, slightly down. The idea is to prevent the backscatter from blinding you (and other road users). Keeping the light low does this as far as is possible. Wide is also important, to light up the edges of the road and keep you on the straight and narrow. In fog, even with the best fog lights, you can't go fast safely, it isn't possible to see far enough; the best fogs will give you less range than dipped beams and with less clarity. In thick fog you'll be crawling; seeing the edge of the road is very important in such situations :) Without fog lights you'd be going nowhere.

http://www.autoanything.com/lights/index.aspx

Putting HID's in foglamps is counter-productive, the extra light will reduce your ability to see through the fog.

Putting HID's in foglight fittings and pretending they are driving lights is fooling nobody but yourself. There is no range or focus to the beam, it will not help at any fine-weather speed. All you're doing is showing an extra pair of lights at the front. It's up to you whether you think that's a good thing or not.
 

Muttley

Catch that diesel!
Mar 17, 2006
4,987
31
North Kent
Shaunyboy wrote
Alternativly try some led bulbs in there...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2X-H3-Xenon-9...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item439acd26f4

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-9-Xenon-S...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2a0211f5ac




Right.

This Xenon thing has got right out of hand.

These light sources are LED's, Light Emitting Diodes, and are solid state, bits of crystal that emit light when current is passed through them. White-light LED's are blue emitters (Indium Gallium Nitride) covered in a phosphor (Yttrium Aluminium Garnet) which glows white.

There is No Xenon Whatsoever in any LED light. None at all.

The first ebay link even claims to be "Xenon ... HID SUPER". Laughable.

Note that neither ad mentions a power rating, watts, lumens or anything else (12v is just the voltage, you need to know the current as well to find the power consumed). However they look to be these bulbs, which are listed as producing 80 lumens. That's the equivalent of maybe a 5 watt sidelight bulb.



LEE69 wrote

If you put leds in them and re-adjust the beam they can be used as driving lights, traffic cop told us.

HID and LED emitters are more efficient than Tungsten-halogen, they give more light power per watt of electricity.

But, the light emitting area in a LED is very tiny, and this limits the power they can consume. The most powerful LED emitters that can be built are of the order of 5 Watts, wheras HID and tungsten-halogen emitters can be made to comsume more power and so generate more light.

Halogen (about 25lumens/watt) 60 watt car bulb - 1500 lumens

LED (typically 60 lumens/watt for HP LED's) 5W - 360 lumens

HID (60-100 lumens/watt) 35 watt car kit - 2000-3500 lumens


So your LED bulbs will last forever, but can't be as bright as an ordinary tungsten-halogen bulb (yet). This will work fine in a foglight, except for one further problem. LED's are very directional, putting out most of their power in a small cone. HID's and Tungsten bulbs radiate light all around, and the headlamp fitting is designed to collect and focus that light. Putting a LED bulb in a reflector (or a projector) designed for a tungsten bulb will give you a lousy beam pattern. Again, this won't matter for fogs, especially with the low power output of a LED bulb.

But they won't be driving lights. They'll be Christmas tree lights.
 
Aug 7, 2009
1,395
0
Manchester U.K
Shaunyboy wrote
Alternativly try some led bulbs in there...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2X-H3-Xenon-9...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item439acd26f4

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-9-Xenon-S...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2a0211f5ac




Right.

This Xenon thing has got right out of hand.

These light sources are LED's, Light Emitting Diodes, and are solid state, bits of crystal that emit light when current is passed through them. White-light LED's are blue emitters (Indium Gallium Nitride) covered in a phosphor (Yttrium Aluminium Garnet) which glows white.

There is No Xenon Whatsoever in any LED light. None at all.

The first ebay link even claims to be "Xenon ... HID SUPER". Laughable.

Note that neither ad mentions a power rating, watts, lumens or anything else (12v is just the voltage, you need to know the current as well to find the power consumed). However they look to be these bulbs, which are listed as producing 80 lumens. That's the equivalent of maybe a 5 watt sidelight bulb.



LEE69 wrote

If you put leds in them and re-adjust the beam they can be used as driving lights, traffic cop told us.

HID and LED emitters are more efficient than Tungsten-halogen, they give more light power per watt of electricity.

But, the light emitting area in a LED is very tiny, and this limits the power they can consume. The most powerful LED emitters that can be built are of the order of 5 Watts, wheras HID and tungsten-halogen emitters can be made to comsume more power and so generate more light.

Halogen (about 25lumens/watt) 60 watt car bulb - 1500 lumens

LED (typically 60 lumens/watt for HP LED's) 5W - 360 lumens

HID (60-100 lumens/watt) 35 watt car kit - 2000-3500 lumens


So your LED bulbs will last forever, but can't be as bright as an ordinary tungsten-halogen bulb (yet). This will work fine in a foglight, except for one further problem. LED's are very directional, putting out most of their power in a small cone. HID's and Tungsten bulbs radiate light all around, and the headlamp fitting is designed to collect and focus that light. Putting a LED bulb in a reflector (or a projector) designed for a tungsten bulb will give you a lousy beam pattern. Again, this won't matter for fogs, especially with the low power output of a LED bulb.

But they won't be driving lights. They'll be Christmas tree lights.

Obviously, whats with the scientific explanation, somebody asked for a white emiting light for the fogs so i posted one. LEDS arent Xennon bulbs obviously and HID is simply High Intesnity Discharge. Xennons dont have an element the same as a halogen light. The guy is asking for a bulb which takes away the yellow tinge, hence why i posted them bulbs as an alternative.
 

MJ

Public transport abuser
Apr 22, 2008
5,508
13
Manchester
m.facebook.com
Led bulbs in fog lights dont work, the only thing these led bulbs are good for is side light bulbs. They dont even emit enough light to see your feet if you stand at front of the car. I know so because i have bought 2 sets - one cheap, one expensive and they are both pants, i even tried some led brake light bulbs which did nothing but bring up a brake light switch fault due to the central electrics unit being confused by the tiny amount of resistance produced by the leds.

Thanks for yet again providing some cracking info Muttley :)
 

LEE69

Stage 2 Revo'd
Dec 10, 2004
21,262
74
C\UK\Devon\Torquay
Led bulbs in fog lights dont work, the only thing these led bulbs are good for is side light bulbs. They dont even emit enough light to see your feet if you stand at front of the car. I know so because i have bought 2 sets - one cheap, one expensive and they are both pants, i even tried some led brake light bulbs which did nothing but bring up a brake light switch fault due to the central electrics unit being confused by the tiny amount of resistance produced by the leds.

Thanks for yet again providing some cracking info Muttley :)

That's why i was told they can be used as additional driving lights as they offer no "beam" just an additional light.
 
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