Uploading Speed Camera (Safety Camera) & User POIs

Artful · Feb 7, 2022

Tell,
Bearing in mind almost the first thing I did after getting the car was to download and install the latest Europe map update for the Discover Pro, when we were out yesterday I had a message flash up on the display that there was a map update available (not software or firmware) but I cancelled it presuming it could be a large file. I had my Galaxy S9+ connected via USB2 with Android Auto connected at the time. I thought this unusual as I'd just installed the map update and I'm not aware that VW provide partial updates. I'm registered with Car-Net so I can only think that's where it came from. The only other possibility is that I have SatNav software on my phone and an update notification may have come from there but checked afterwards and there was no pending updates. I wasn't aware that my phone notifications would show on the car display, or do they ?

I've searched around for firmware update files but haven't found anything (yet).

I'm now contemplating trying the MIB Tools option but worried in case I brick the unit, is that possible ?

Tell · Feb 7, 2022

Artful said:
Tell,
Bearing in mind almost the first thing I did after getting the car was to download and install the latest Europe map update for the Discover Pro, when we were out yesterday I had a message flash up on the display that there was a map update available (not software or firmware) but I cancelled it presuming it could be a large file. I had my Galaxy S9+ connected via USB2 with Android Auto connected at the time. I thought this unusual as I'd just installed the map update and I'm not aware that VW provide partial updates. I'm registered with Car-Net so I can only think that's where it came from. The only other possibility is that I have SatNav software on my phone and an update notification may have come from there but checked afterwards and there was no pending updates. I wasn't aware that my phone notifications would show on the car display, or do they ?

I've searched around for firmware update files but haven't found anything (yet).

I'm now contemplating trying the MIB Tools option but worried in case I brick the unit, is that possible ?

Your map updates for mib3 are working as they should. You get over the air updates in parts. When you pick a route it checks whether there are updates then starts updating. Unlike mib2 where there were two updates a year via SD copy etc, mib3 fragments the map into smaller parts and more frequent over the air updates. You have to have the contract for this. So you will have for this to have come up. Not sure whether you can do this with home WiFi for cheapness @dan555 would know.

I would not experiment with mib tool since that is really only for mib2 highs. There is a paper exercise you can do which is to determine whether the mib3 firmware uses xml to upload and whether those statements look the same as the mib2 high. From that the part number of the unit is picked up. That's edited into the mib2 high file generates by Poinspector, check sum adjusted as I said above. That assumes they use the same xml syntax and they have built in the POI import in the unit. All a bit experimental. I throw that out there for someone who has access to mib3 firmware file to have a look to see whether it's syntax at the start is similar to mib2 high where it uses the units part number to identify it self. If that can't be seen then it's stops there. If not then you could try editting the POI import file.

I was going to ask @MIB-Wiki whether mib3 firmware had come their way for inspection of the top of the code and whether it looked anything like mib2 high in terms of xml (some mark up language anyhow).

Mib2 Poi file documented. That's well known from RNS, mib1 and mib2.

Merge with MIB2-high toolbox? · Issue #1 · mattcabb/mib2std-toolbox

Hello :-) Great work, looking forward to this toolbox!! Maybe we can merge our toolboxes, so we can have shared things like scripts/tweaks and such. It's possible to support multiple platforms with...

github.com

The mib2 high coding expert and one of the authors of mib tool and that above is @Chillout . It will come to pass at some stage whether you can import POIs into mib3. I'd leave it to the experts unless you nibble a bit off at a time yourself. The basic question is whether anything from mib2 was maintained in the software. If not, then it's a no go on using the previous syntax with just the part number edited in and check sum revised.

I've kicked off the paper exercise above for you. See what replies we get.

Artful · Feb 7, 2022

Tell,

This is mostly over my head, I'm a retired Chartered Mechanical Engineer, a pretty proficient Fortran programmer in my early years (70s & 80s) but not this stuff, so I really appreciate the help you're giving me. As you say, the experts will sort this eventually so I'll just need to be patient and add individual POIs to the directory progressively.

I've not tried connecting the car to my home wifi which is visible when the car's on the drive but will give it a try. I've not intended or felt it necessary to suffer the extra expense of putting a separate data SIM in the MIB for what I need as the data on my phone will easily cover traffic etc., however, I didn't know that VW provide partial map updates via Car-Net, how are you supposed to know things like that as I can't recall seeing that anywhere.

I presume that MIB firmware updates can only be done via a dealer but how does one know when they're available.

Tell · Feb 7, 2022

Artful said:
Tell,

This is mostly over my head, I'm a retired Chartered Mechanical Engineer, a pretty proficient Fortran programmer in my early years (70s & 80s) but not this stuff, so I really appreciate the help you're giving me. As you say, the experts will sort this eventually so I'll just need to be patient and add individual POIs to the directory progressively.

I've not tried connecting the car to my home wifi which is visible when the car's on the drive but will give it a try. I've not intended or felt it necessary to suffer the extra expense of putting a separate data SIM in the MIB for what I need as the data on my phone will easily cover traffic etc., however, I didn't know that VW provide partial map updates via Car-Net, how are you supposed to know things like that as I can't recall seeing that anywhere.

I presume that MIB firmware updates can only be done via a dealer but how does one know when they're available.

Us management scientists had to do out own programming often in Fortran and assorted other languages ?. Object orientated programming was my last self learning as I moved away from programming into management.

VAG probably think you dont need to know how the map download works in mib3 so they don't tell you. It's 65 or so zonal fragments looking inside the mib3 map download you see on their website. Seat and Skoda have their own versions of Car Net. If mib3 firmware is like mib2 again It's developed in the same way with a version for each brand. The maps go across but the firmware is specific. It's Dan who I referenced above who forces a map update by selecting a route across boundaries. You do that if driving abroad so you knew you had the latest maps.

That question of how do you know what firmware you should be on for mib3 is common across the brand. Only firmware twigs are done over the air in mib3, firmware changes are done by the dealer. Generally if it's deemed the firmware has an issues it's updated free by the dealer. Fancying an update since its on the latest models where its deemed the functionality is fine wasn't done by the dealer for mib2. This is where user support comes in as libraries were assembled of firmware and people who advised in their own time how to do it or you took it to a retrofitter and pay to get exactly what you want. Early days it appears on mib3.

Board conversations rotate around mib3 issues, I guess VW ones do now as well as Seat and Skoda. Seat customers are waiting on firmware releases which fix known issues some common across brand on the same platform on other systems (MQB Evo), which turn out they don't. You probably need to trawl VW boards. If the unit is reliable I would sit back. I don't seek out firmware updates unless there is an issue.

dan555 · Feb 7, 2022

Tell said:
Your map updates for mib3 are working as they should. You get over the air updates in parts. When you pick a route it checks whether there are updates then starts updating. Unlike mib2 where there were two updates a year via SD copy etc, mib3 fragments the map into smaller parts and more frequent over the air updates. You have to have the contract for this. So you will have for this to have come up. Not sure whether you can do this with home WiFi for cheapness @dan555 would know.

I would not experiment with mib tool since that is really only for mib2 highs. There is a paper exercise you can do which is to determine whether the mib3 firmware uses xml to upload and whether those statements look the same as the mib2 high. From that the part number of the unit is picked up. That's edited into the mib2 high file generates by Poinspector, check sum adjusted as I said above. That assumes they use the same xml syntax and they have built in the POI import in the unit. All a bit experimental. I throw that out there for someone who has access to mib3 firmware file to have a look to see whether it's syntax at the start is similar to mib2 high where it uses the units part number to identify it self. If that can't be seen then it's stops there. If not then you could try editting the POI import file.

I was going to ask @MIB-Wiki whether mib3 firmware had come their way for inspection of the top of the code and whether it looked anything like mib2 high in terms of xml (some mark up language anyhow).

Mib2 Poi file documented. That's well known from RNS, mib1 and mib2.

Merge with MIB2-high toolbox? · Issue #1 · mattcabb/mib2std-toolbox

Hello :-) Great work, looking forward to this toolbox!! Maybe we can merge our toolboxes, so we can have shared things like scripts/tweaks and such. It's possible to support multiple platforms with...

github.com

The mib2 high coding expert and one of the authors of mib tool and that above is @Chillout . It will come to pass at some stage whether you can import POIs into mib3. I'd leave it to the experts unless you nibble a bit off at a time yourself. The basic question is whether anything from mib2 was maintained in the software. If not, then it's a no go on using the previous syntax with just the part number edited in and check sum revised.

I've kicked off the paper exercise above for you. See what replies we get.

MIB3 seems to do updates using the Seat Connect connection (not the Cubic Telecom Data Plan). Map Updates tend to come through randomly for me, I have recieved some whilst connected to WiFi at home, but I did also have an active Seat Connect Subscription. I don't get notified about new Map updates only system updates. The Maps seem to update quietly in the background, can usually tell they have updated as it takes a good minute for them to load when starting the car.

Tell · Feb 23, 2022

Note the curse of Microsoft strikes again in so far as the maps within Poinspector stopped working as they changed something. The programmer has published a fix:

POInspect0r

customize your RNS510/Discover/Columbus/Amundsen navi maps for VW/Seat/Škoda cars

poinspect0r.blogspot.com

Register edit with much care and it's working again. :footysup:

(whilst the program will work without the fix you get the maps back again with the fix on the PC for visual checking before the import. Regedit can wreck your PC boot if you make a mistake so be careful, you then reboot your PC and the programme works again as designed).

You can carefully find the right key area to edit it in, it may be in a slightly different path based on the Windows release. I couldn't see how the "run this patch" worked so did the edit myself carefully finding the right path to put it in. Google is your friend as always on opening regedit etc.

Example of my finished edit:

The fix from the website:

Google maps fix/workaround

Workaround to fix IE compatibility for built-in app map feature.
Open registry editor (regedit) and browse for the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\FeatureControl\FEATURE_BROWSER_EMULATION
Under this key create new value:
"RNS510poi.exe"=dword:00002ee1
Or simply download and run this patch which do the steps above.
Now you can run again program RNS510poi.exe with map feature!

Artful · Mar 2, 2022

Tell,

Just an update on this from me. I haven't been able make any progress with personal POIs except I did raise a query with VW Customer Services who gave me a call-back. The chap I spoke to agreed the missing facility to upload and backup personal POIs and POI groups was a glaring omission and said he'd report back my complaint to the relevant technical team but I reckon it's a black hole in terms of any follow up from them. I tried the published VCDS method of activating the green menu via the 5F adaptation using the S1234 code but it didn't work.

Also, the car went in to the local VW dealer (Lookers VW) for warranty work to replace two ventilation flap actuator motors that showed faulty on a VCDS diagnostic scan I did. They said they had to calibrate them after fitting so presume they do that with VW's diagnostic system. What I discovered afterwards was that all the personal POIs I'd input manually had been wiped which I later queried with them and they said they'd revert if possible with an answer to my query as to why it happened. No response yet !! I'd be interested to know if anyone else with a similar (or earlier) VAG system has had this happen as I would have thought any user data would be stored in non-volatile memory.

Also, I asked them to check if the MIB firmware was current and update it if not and they confirmed it is current - I don't know whether it is as I don't know if there's a way I can check that.

Tell · Mar 2, 2022

Reckon Mib3 is work in progress for Vag. Not a lot will happen till 2025 when you'll see mib4 if they stick with their 5 year mib cycle and more capable hardware. Mib3 was written with new software and a total redesign from the previous mib2. They moved from QNX to Automotive Grade Linux.

More about mib3 here:

Infotainment Semi Conductor manufacturer?

I've just been reading in Auto Zeitung that the Golf is to get a different semi conductor manufacturer for the infotainment screen when the model is facelifted. It's planned to switch from Qualcomm to Samsung. One of the reasons cited is due to the length of time it takes the system to boot up...

www.seatcupra.net

They don't seem to employ very good programmers that believe in a wing and prayer... "It will work, I fixed it this time". Anybody who has written program know they don't. They are suppose to use a light agile way of programming they days where you put the stuff out with mistakes... that assumes you correct the mistakes.

I suspect they did a factory reset in your dealership which is how you lost your favourites. As for current firmware release of your VW you probably need to trawl VW boards. The serial release of Seats is common within Seats but won't be the same as VW, although there will be shared code I'm sure.

I'm happy with my legacy mib2 high, and the partner's mib2 standard works fine, but not as good as a high more about the cartography of TomTom being not as good as Here Maps which is loaded in mib2 high. (Mib3 uses Here Maps as well - so you got the best of the two). The turn positions on roundabouts for the standard on the card display are more crude and not well designed. TomTom maps tend to be more hand drawn and flaky so the car's position doesn't tally with the map. Often out of a roundabout with the mib2 standard when it tells you to take the 1st turning etc.

Artful · Mar 2, 2022

Tell,

I've been wondering, is my unit definitely a MIB3 ? How can you tell ? I believe for sure the 2020 or later models are. My car was registered 27th March 2019 but obviously manufactured before then. Is there a way of finding out - presumably with extractors I could slide the unit out and photo the label.

Tell · Mar 2, 2022

Artful said:
Tell,

I've been wondering, is my unit definitely a MIB3 ? How can you tell ? I believe for sure the 2020 or later models are. My car was registered 27th March 2019 but obviously manufactured before then. Is there a way of finding out - presumably with extractors I could slide the unit out and photo the label.

That was your post 213. VW did fit Mib3 unit on a test basis in 2019. You see that on the VW navigation update site where Passat units in 2019 are listed with the mib3 files against them. May be they did fit these units into other vehicles as available.

Maintenance and Technology Guides | Volkswagen UK

Learn more about how to check your lights, or check the oil of your Volkswagen in these short how to videos showing you how quick and easy it can be.

www.volkswagen.co.uk

You could try accessing the site with your VW ID. Top right, expect you will get offered the mib3 updates.

The other categoric method is sliding out the unit and reading the sticker ?. Need your quad keys for that. If you Google the details and hit an online sales site and look at the images you might see it. Depends whether someone is selling the unit and read the sticker in the picturp. My normal method on this one. Pretty categoric you haven't got a mib2 in the car.

Artful · Mar 2, 2022

Tell,

One of the first things I did after getting the car was check for a map update on that very website. There was only one Touareg option, "Touareg from 2018" which I selected after which there were two options, "Discover Pro" and "Discover Premium" so I selected "Discover Pro" then downloaded the Europe map which was in a ZIP file named "P0520_MIB2P_EU" which was 27.4 GB when extracted. Attached is a screen capture and the graphic of the Discover Pro head unit to the right which is the same as that in my car and labelled MIB2. The map installation worked without problems so at that time I believed that the head unit is a MIB2.

Tell · Mar 2, 2022

Artful said:
Tell,

One of the first things I did after getting the car was check for a map update on that very website. There was only one Touareg option, "Touareg from 2018" which I selected after which there were two options, "Discover Pro" and "Discover Premium" so I selected "Discover Pro" then downloaded the Europe map which was in a ZIP file named "P0520_MIB2P_EU" which was 27.4 GB when extracted. Attached is a screen capture and the graphic of the Discover Pro head unit to the right which is the same as that in my car and labelled MIB2. The map installation worked without problems so at that time I believed that the head unit is a MIB2.

Perhaps you have a half way system which isnt called mib3 but isn't mib2. Incorrectly documented. The map code P0520_MIB2P_EU isn't a mib2 high map code. We are currently at 195.

If you have the download and it was mib2 high then it will open up into two directories mib1 and mib2 if it's a mib2 high. If you download the mib3 ones off that site you will see they are very different. Suspects yours looks like that.

Also with mib3 they ditched the POI import option off the screens. Which you have missing as well.

Artful · Mar 2, 2022

There are only two folders within the map PO520_MIB2P_EU folder after extraction, Data and Meta, both of which have many subfolders of corresponding names, which are Eggnog, NavDB, Truffles and VDE folders, several of each for each country. No MIB1 and MIB2 so from what you say it does look like a MIB3 structure.

It's not like any map structure I've seen before. Out of interest I've interrogated some of the files and found strings like "navigation data: Supplier: HERE Release: 2021.1 Version: 201H0" and in the Data/NavDB folders files with the .NDS extension so they appear to be HERE maps (I think ???).

Tell · Mar 2, 2022

Artful said:
There are only two folders within the map PO520_MIB2P_EU folder after extraction, Data and Meta, both of which have many subfolders of corresponding names, which are Eggnog, NavDB, Truffles and VDE folders, several of each for each country. No MIB1 and MIB2 so from what you say it does look like a MIB3 structure.

It's not like any map structure I've seen before. Out of interest I've interrogated some of the files and found strings like "navigation data: Supplier: HERE Release: 2021.1 Version: 201H0" and in the Data/NavDB folders files with the .NDS extension so they appear to be HERE maps (I think ???).

That's mib3. The components blobs of files I believe are the component parts that get downloaded as you request a destination across zones that need to be updated during an online in car update. They are the zones.

Artful · May 11, 2022

@Tell

It's been a while but are you aware of anything at VW to reinstate the ability to upload POIs via CarNet for MIB3 or other previous model head units ?

I had my local dealer update my Discover Pro to the latest software (Version 2838) which seems to have fixed the saved destinations random deletion problem so my saved destinations now remain intact.

Do you think there's any likelihood that there'll be a hack to upload personal POIs and POI group files on the MIB3 head units ?

Tell · May 11, 2022

Don't think there is any likelihood in this design of mib3. I'm hoping they will sort it out for mib4 ~ 2025. Apparently VW claim that people were not using that Carnet facility. Without the menu options in the unit you wouldn't be able to do anything with POIs, so it needs a redesign. Hopefully they will see the light. A lot of complaints about mib3.

Artful · May 11, 2022

Guess I'll have to hold onto my TomTom GO Expert then !

Thanks for that, much appreciated.

Tester01 · Jan 3, 2023

is there still an issue with 877 units?
Trying to upload POI using files from:
free-speed-cam-updates.web2diz.net

But unable to, system doesn't seem to pick them up.

Wonder if this is why?

Considering using POIBase and paying the £20/year but dont wanna if im gonna have issues installing it

Tell · Jan 3, 2023

The import must have the part number on it for the 877 unit. So that's down to the website rather than Poinpector. I got the developer to change his program when the solution became apparent. So this program is fine. You can open up the metainfo2.txt on your file and eyeball it against the conversation I had further up. You can edit those but then you have to recompute the checksum. I recall giving a poster a tutorial on it ?. Had to work it out again. Its on the thread. That's what we were doing as a temporary fix for Poinspector till Radas the programmer altered it.

It's in the conversation with Eleanor where I gave how to do it manually