Water injection or Intercooler Spray?

[ibizacupra]

Activated when inlet manifold pressure reaches a set level. (ie: 0.8 bar, or 1.0 bar, etc...)

I'd also like to know how hard it is to fit, and how much the temps will drop by on a remapped cupra with standard SMIC?

Basic system 1s is what i run myself.. low tech cheapest but functional.

have a browse by here for some logs of a guy using 1S system.. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=878500&page=5

tapping into suitable section of pipe post IC is going to be the only tricky part and drilling a leak proof adaptor into your washer bottle..

Its straight forward.. I managed it.

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill,

That reminds me, i still need to sort you out with an order for my water injection bits, kinda been very busy since before chrimbo so it kinda got forgoten about!

When i'm back from Finland in Feb i will confirm what parts i'm after!

Cheers,

Paul.

(apologies for the thread hijack!)

no probs Paul..
when ya ready m8

 

[Feel]

Bill,

Do they just do a kit with the pump, pipe, nozzle etc but without the pressure switch?

I brought one of those turbodisplay units I was on about and it includes the function to run WI from the boost and intake temperature readings it takes.

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill,

Do they just do a kit with the pump, pipe, nozzle etc but without the pressure switch?

I brought one of those turbodisplay units I was on about and it includes the function to run WI from the boost and intake temperature readings it takes.

bits are avaialbe according to the price list seperately so technically yes i think so.
would need to suss the parts req'd vs 1S kit list (minus switch)

 

[Simon L]

Would there be any way to add an extra misting nozzle and have it placed at the intercooler?

So they are both controlled by the ERL unit and fire at the same time?

WMI and intercooler misting in one package?

 

[Feel]

bits are avaialbe according to the price list seperately so technically yes i think so.
would need to suss the parts req'd vs 1S kit list (minus switch)

Prolly not worth it. Probably only the pressure switch to leave out of the kit, and I bet it doesn't make that much difference to the cost...

 

[ryan_s3]

i'm going to work my own system thats mappable to boost and rpm just working out the bugs.

 

[BenS1]

ERL (Aquamist) say to install the jet as close after the intercooler outlet as possible and before the throttle..
Seen some USA cars fit 2 injector ports into their inlet manifolds, which did'nt seem right to me, but they did previously have injector in Aquamist suggested position.
Idea of post Ic injector port being it allows the mist to absorb the heat for as long an induction path as you have... maximising the heat reduction.

ERL/Aquamist suggest 3 different possible locations depending on what exactly you are trying to do. See their diagram here:

Injection Positions

I personally would advise people to go for the 2D or 2S systems. The 1S system (Which I have BTW) works very well but the problem is that it provides a costant flow rate, so at lower revs its supplying too much water and at high revs its not supplying enough. The 2D and 2S systems will increase the water flow as required (The 2D is simplest at maintains a constant ratio of water injection to fuel injection.... so you could for example inject 10%water for 90% fuel).

The other advantage of the 2D & 2S systems is that they can detect a blockage on the nossle. Given the very small size of the jet it would only take a very small piece of rubbish in your reservour to result in a blockage, and apparently this not uncommon.

An undetected blockage could result in terminal detonation (If the engine was mapped for water injection).

I REALLY wanted the 2D system, but Jabba said that they didn't have time to install it so it was 1S or nothing.

I will upgrade at some point (The systems are upgradable).

Ben

 

[ibizacupra]

but the problem is that it provides a costant flow rate, so at lower revs its supplying too much water and at high revs its not supplying enough. Ben

BUT.... also to remember.... low revs and boost switching threshold will mean on bigger turbo cars will mean higher revs for same boost level...

dont disagree on a mappable system probably having some benefits, if you can spend the time actually setting it all up, and while you're at it. optimising the ecu's map also..

I will hopefully be back on the dyno for remapping this engine as-is to see who things actually fare,..

 

[BenS1]

Yeah, i want mine mapped to take advantage of the Aquamist mapping. i don't want Aquamist to just be another saftey net.

 

[ryan_s3]

Anyone know what the stock map sensor on the tt(225)/s3 and leon cupra r is? 2.3bar?

 

[Feel]

I was told 2.5, someone posted that Jabba said it was 2.55





P.S. Told you that document was hard to decipher. Bill has a copy so he might confirm.

 

[ryan_s3]

thanks feel,just re-read your post on maps,does the voltage output when ignition on still apply?ie 1.8v for 2.5bar.Anyone know what the range is from ie 0.1bar-2.5 bar.Been trying to work some stuff for my wi kit .Pressure range starts ie 0.1 bar=0.4v in a linear relationship to 2.5bar=4.65v.This is just a educated guess,anyone know what the figures are?
Also anyone know which pin on the ecu i can get the tacho reading(rpm) from?

 

[BenS1]

thanks feel,just re-read your post on maps,does the voltage output when ignition on still apply?ie 1.8v for 2.5bar.Anyone know what the range is from ie 0.1bar-2.5 bar.Been trying to work some stuff for my wi kit .Pressure range starts ie 0.1 bar=0.4v in a linear relationship to 2.5bar=4.65v.This is just a educated guess,anyone know what the figures are?
Also anyone know which pin on the ecu i can get the tacho reading(rpm) from?

Ryan, are you working on your own system because you want to or because yu don't think theres anythiing out there that does it already?

There are several systems out there already that will adjust the water injection flow rate with the boost pressure (And/or several other vairables to such as revs, fuel injector duty cycle etc).


Cheers
Ben

 

[Feel]

thanks feel,just re-read your post on maps,does the voltage output when ignition on still apply?ie 1.8v for 2.5bar.Anyone know what the range is from ie 0.1bar-2.5 bar.Been trying to work some stuff for my wi kit .Pressure range starts ie 0.1 bar=0.4v in a linear relationship to 2.5bar=4.65v.This is just a educated guess,anyone know what the figures are?
Also anyone know which pin on the ecu i can get the tacho reading(rpm) from?

As far as I know the voltages in that other post are based on the MAP being a 2.5 bar. I haven't tested them.

 

[ryan_s3]

i don't think any system can match the one i'm doing especially for under £300.
By the way,which system can map to boost and revs and have variable flow?If your talking of a aquamists it's uses injector cycle i believe ,which in my opinion is wrong.

 

[ibizacupra]

... it's uses injector cycle i believe ,which in my opinion is wrong.

and yours will be better because........................?

 

[Fen]

i don't think any system can match the one i'm doing especially for under £300.
By the way,which system can map to boost and revs and have variable flow?If your talking of a aquamists it's uses injector cycle i believe ,which in my opinion is wrong.

2D uses injector cycle, 2S is staged manifold pressure switch or MAP if available isn't it? Given that the 1S works then I'd have thought the 2D or 2S can only be an improvement, especially in higher boost applications. Personally I don't see anything wrong with using injector cycle; sure it's a secondary rather than primary measure, but it's still pretty much mapped to load which is what you're trying to do with the water injection.

What I find scary is the possiblity of running out of water - if you are going to make it worth while having water injection (so it's not "just another safety net" as Ben puts it) then presumably the engine will go bang in a big way if it stops working for any reason.

Is there any fail-safe built in to the Aquamist systems to prevent that? What sort of quantity of water do you need for sensible boost levels (up to 1.5bar)? I think I'd want a water tank that could cope with at least a full tank of petrol, just to be safe but is that a big volume? From memory my washer bottle is 5 litres (and the petrol tank 80 litres) and if that isn't enough then getting something bigger in there would be a problem.

 

[ryan_s3]

ok,i'll just point out i'm not trying to sell them or anything.Mine will be mappable to revs,boost and with a variable pump flow.So i can still have the wi on at high rpm's but not at 100% flow,really you want to run you wi to your torque curve as this is where you are going to see detonation.This is better than a aquamist 1s for instance because it's not based purely on boost and it's not a on/off type switch.Now i'm not fully versed on the 2d but if it's based on fuel injector cycle then it's not really rpm or boost dependant? which is what you really want to map to in my opinion and it's very pricey compared to my £250 version.But you pay your money and take your choice.

 

[Fen]

Surely fuel injector cycle is mapped to boost/rpm/load though?

I'm only starting to look into this but presumably you either want the same ratio of water:fuel throughout the range or you want the ratio to change in a linear manner relating to boost/rpm/fuel. If it's the second then I agree the 2D sounds like it's not got enough sensors. Given that the 1S works well enough though with a simple on or off set-up I can't see you need a huge amount of finesse in this.