Way down on power,RR, Missing a few Pony's

[rsmith]

Hey All,

When i first got my LCR i got it mapped and it churned out 269bhp/308lb/ft, that was running 98ron with a K&N panel filter and a Samco TIP, thats it.

Since then i have added the below.

Jetex cone filter.
Heat Shield
Dv007p
FMIC
BlueFlame Cat back

I have added other bit and bobs but they are only cosmetic.

Anyways i brought it to a different RR, Dyno Dynamics(AKA The Heartbreaker) it made 228bhp/250lbft on the first run with 95ron!!, so i added a bottle of Millers and it made 247BHP/280lbft over the next 2 runs, this is on a stage 1 remap.

I am disgusted and confused, i log on regular basis and consistantly see 210+g/s

The dotted line is BHP and the clear line is Lb/ft

 

[JamJay]

Don't get me started with Dyno's, I really really hate the things. They're a great way to help spot boost leaks & flat spots but as for shattering your expectations and making you worry unnecessarily about your car, they're right up there at the top.

I lost 10bhp & 30lb/ft between the 1st RR when it was remapped and the second time I did it, with no change in mods aside from N249 bypass. The strange thing is that the car felt stronger than ever on the road! To add, in logs it was reading 207g/s at that point with 0 - 2 CFs across the board on separate runs, intake temps were good also.

 

[rsmith]

Yeah, i am totally disgusted, 228bhp/250lb/ft running on 95ron with all those mods, FFS thats not far off standard to be honest and then 247bhp/280lbft with octane booster to bring it to 98/99ron. I am confused

On all the calculations from the ross-tech site it tells me i am around the 260bhp mark.

I am thining now is it worth it all.

 

[JamJay]

Don't be disheartened, I went through the same thing and really lost faith. I ran logs, checked for boost leaks and any other issues and guess what, I found nothing! How does it feel on the road? This is the main thing.

IMO, a dyno is only as good as it is on the day, too many small factors can alter the reading, with intake temps being the main one. You also need to think about whether there was any wheel slip or spin, this can change the readouts by some margin also. My 1st RR was at 16celcius, the 2nd was about 26celcius so this may have been the reason for my under performance.

You also need to take into account that a Stage 1 remap is generally tuned for 98/99ron fuel and running your car on 95ron will hinder the cars performance although I don't know by what margin. However, it's quite apparent in yours, the difference between the two.

I think that road logging is a much more accurate way of approximating your engine power, this is how the car operates in the real world, not a false environment such as a dyno room. If the car feels strong on the road then you really don't have a problem. I take time to pick my mods and so far I have made good choices that really increase real world performance, this doesn't always include BHP mods. If I were you, i'd be looking down the same route and staying away from those Heart Breakers until Stage 2!

On a side note, have a quick looks for any potential boost leaks. Feel the pipes and listen for any unusual hissing sounds.

 

[adam cupra 20vt]

Isn't the Dyno Dynamics well known for showing a lot less than other rollers?

 

[rsmith]

Don't be disheartened, I went through the same thing and really lost faith. I ran logs, checked for boost leaks and any other issues and guess what, I found nothing! How does it feel on the road? This is the main thing.

IMO, a dyno is only as good as it is on the day, too many small factors can alter the reading, with intake temps being the main one. You also need to think about whether there was any wheel slip or spin, this can change the readouts by some margin also. My 1st RR was at 16celcius, the 2nd was about 26celcius so this may have been the reason for my under performance.

You also need to take into account that a Stage 1 remap is generally tuned for 98/99ron fuel and running your car on 95ron will hinder the cars performance although I don't know by what margin. However, it's quite apparent in yours, the difference between the two.

I think that road logging is a much more accurate way of approximating your engine power, this is how the car operates in the real world, not a false environment such as a dyno room. If the car feels strong on the road then you really don't have a problem. I take time to pick my mods and so far I have made good choices that really increase real world performance, if I were you, i'd be looking down the same route and staying away from those Heart Breakers until Stage 2!

On a side note, have a quick looks for any potential boost leaks. Feel the pipes and listen for any unusual hissing sounds.

Yeah the car feels strong on the road, way stronger than my last standard LCR, which is kinda why i am confused by the dyno. I am still totally disheartened as it only made this power, should i try a different RR or is the DD accurate.

P.S i have a race cat and 3" Dp on the way, pronto.

 

[jamiebennett81]

Havin been through the pain just recently of the DD rollers, trust me, if it feels fine to drive then ignore the figures!

Best piece of advice I can give in this case or you are forever searching for the holy Grail like I always am!

 

[JamJay]

I can't see how someone can say that one dyno is more accurate than another, surely it must depend on the days conditions, the condition of the rollers and car. I used to think that having a high BHP figure was what it was all about, bragging rights if you will but it's not what tuning is all about at all. You need to find a good balance between all modifications which includes more power but also handling and traction, all together will produce a real weapon on and off of the track.

You say it feels much faster than your old stock LCR, the 1st RR with 95ron is close to stock in terms of BHP so if it feels faster on the road by a long way, what has that dyno really proved?

You won't regret the DP and sports cat, it makes a real difference.

 

[rsmith]

Havin been through the pain just recently of the DD rollers, trust me, if it feels fine to drive then ignore the figures!

Best piece of advice I can give in this case or you are forever searching for the holy Grail like I always am!

It does feel fine on the road, i guess it just nice to have a benachmark figure in my head, i am a bit of a nerd when it comes to logging and what my 1.8t lump in putting out.
It really makes me wonder about all these guys on here putting out figures like 270/280/290bhp on stage 1 maps!! maybe i have got caught up in all the bragging rights and listening to folks that sorta add 10bhp 15bhp here and there when you are talking with them.

I am still heatbroken though. should i break out the icecream

 

[rsmith]

You won't regret the DP and sports cat, it makes a real difference.

I will be getting and RR done after i fit this, i can't wait it might restore my confidence a bit.Hopefully now Blueflame will get the finger out and actually ship the fricking thing!

 

[Deleted member 43482]

Dont forget the car will take a while to adjust to higher octane fuels, next time you go run a good 2-3 tanks of v-power before hand and you should see better results

 

[rsmith]

Dont forget the car will take a while to adjust to higher octane fuels, next time you go run a good 2-3 tanks of v-power before hand and you should see better results

no V-power in Ireland or anything above 95oct, because of the useless in government decided to put a heafty tax on higher octane fuels, they are a shower of but thats a different discussion.
Millers seem to do the job nicely, jumped 20bhp when it was added, i was in shock when i seen the difference it made.

Also on another note, i seen for the first time engine knock, big poof of smoke from the exhaust.

 

[JamJay]

Keep running it on the octane booster and see what happens. I know that this adds to your fuel bill but it's probably comparable at least to what we have to pay for 99ron here in the U.K. It will make a difference

 

[GlanzaV]

I can't tell from the pic you've posted but is it defo giving you a reading at the flywheel? 246WHP would be about right considering a ~15% transmission loss??

Might be barking up the totally wrong tree though

 

[karlw]

Dyno Dynamics are one of the most accurate unforunately
When I had my S14A (200 sx) its rooled 376BHP on surrey rolling road then on APTs Dyno it wasjus over 300.
Like it been said above you really need to use them for dianostics purposes and stick to the same one.
If it feels quick on the road then it probably is. Compare it against other cars of similar spec if you can.

 

[rsmith]

Keep running it on the octane booster and see what happens. I know that this adds to your fuel bill but it's probably comparable at least to what we have to pay for 99ron here in the U.K. It will make a difference

i bought 5 bottles of this before i left the shop
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p5894/MILLERS-CVL-TURBO-OCTANE-BOOSTER/product_info.html

 

[rsmith]

I can't tell from the pic you've posted but is it defo giving you a reading at the flywheel? 246WHP would be about right considering a ~15% transmission loss??

Might be barking up the totally wrong tree though

Yeah it was measured at the flywheel alright, so it would be even less at the wheel

 

[DJ-LIAMC]

Ive used Dyno Dynamics RR (Heartbreaker) on v-power very cold day, i only got 235bhp 272bhp with my mods stage 1 revo ect, was expecting more for a stage 1 map tbh

 

[andycupra]

what did you do between runing 95 ron and adding millers?
it wont just instantly up the power..

 

[JamJay]

I would be very interested to put a standard LCR on a DD roller and see what it says, right now it wouldn't surprise me if it read a 225 LCR at more like 200bhp. At the moment it seems like the power claims by the tuners are either optomistic or the DD rollers are very reserved.