Way down on power,RR, Missing a few Pony's

[rsmith]

what did you do between runing 95 ron and adding millers?
it wont just instantly up the power..

Well it did, right in front of my eyes, i had a 1/2 tank of petrol, did some runs, was getting about 228bhp, added the millers and 3 runs later i was hitting 247bhp, i was very suprised after reading all the threads about the ECU having to learn, but hey if you have got higher octance in the engine you will get a better bang of it.

 

[rsmith]

I would be very interested to put a standard LCR on a DD roller and see what it says, right now it wouldn't surprise me if it read a 225 LCR at more like 200bhp. At the moment it seems like the power claims by the tuners are either optomistic or the DD rollers are very reserved.

I would love to know this, and if thats the case the LCR is meant to have 222bhp how and on what was that measured.

 

[JamJay]

I have no idea how a manufacturer measures it TBH but surely it must be accurate otherwise wouldn't it go against the sale of goods act to lie about it? When I got my LCR210, it was RR'd at AMD at 210.7bhp...so bang on the manufactures claim.

 

[wild willy]

So long as the car wasn't suffering heat soak on the day or too much timing advance it is probable that the dyno is under reading.
When Awesome GTI first had its DD RR installed it was recording stock 210 lcr's as 190 bhp. Several stock cars were measured and appeared down. Since then i believe upgrades (software) have been done and its regarded as a very accurate dyno. Any car thats pulling around 210 g/sec will be more like 275 bhp.

 

[Joeb]

this is quite an interesting thread as im having the same issue...

Cupra R 225
Stage 1 revo
Always use Vpower or tescos 99
Forge 007/Forge TIP


Ive recently purchased the LIQUID GUAGE and have been doing some runs etc...


im only getting 239BHP, 258 torque.

changed revo settings, etc....still the same.


What didnt occur to me was to TURN OFF the map and then see what figures im getting.
would be interesting to see if the figures ARE actually 225 or not....

should be an interesting test....



R smith, have u tested what kind of boost your getting???

 

[JamJay]

What didnt occur to me was to TURN OFF the map and then see what figures im getting.
would be interesting to see if the figures ARE actually 225 or not....

I'd like to know what results you get.

 

[james.l]

in my opinion it must be the rollers that aren't reading properly, why would every mappers rolling road roughly put out the same information for a stage 1 but at DD everything seems underpowered? The boost is up'd quite a lot with just a phase one remap, almost 60% IIRC, the timing is altered, more fuel added, etc etc,. In my opinion its the RR thats the issue.

 

[Joeb]

yeh its a great idea!

ill post up the results after turning it off with a throttle body reset...



question for the boff's...


Liquid Gauge calculates the BHP/torque from the ECU
Rolling road is all done via the power @ the wheel...



what do you guys think the obvious differences are?
what could affect the readings between the two
which method would be more reliable, ECU or power @ wheel readings?

 

[rsmith]

Just out and did a scan of the car, got the below code.The stress of the RR must have turned it up as i have been logging for weeks and never seen it.

17705 - Pressure Drop between Turbo
and Throttle Valve (check
D.V.!) : P1297
00035 35-00 -

I tightened up all the clamps on the boost hoses and then did a battery disconnect followed by a TBA in vagcom and a spirited drive and wow, some difference my boost spike is hitting 1.8/9 bar(according to the guage!!) around 3000rpm and then dropping back to 1.4/5bar.The car feels alot quicker.I did a log of 115 before and after and you can see the difference, its been awhile since i have seen a 2540mbar on the reading, i guess over time if the power is down you adjust to it.

Log below.

Before

	Group A:	'115			
		RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure
	TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar
	10.45	2080	111.3	2140	1340
	10.86	2240	118.8	2270	1430
	11.26	2400	126.3	2270	1550
	11.67	2560	139.8	2290	1690
	12.09	2760	157.1	2300	1920
	12.45	2960	186.5	2300	2280
	12.86	3280	191.7	2340	2410
	13.26	3520	191.7	2400	2310
	13.66	3800	191.7	2420	2430
	14.07	4040	191.7	2450	2400
	14.47	4280	191.7	2440	2420
	14.88	4520	191.7	2440	2400
	15.29	4760	191.7	2410	2340
	15.7	4960	191.7	2390	2240
	16.08	5200	191.7	2370	2180
	16.48	5400	191.7	2350	2120
	16.89	5600	178.9	2330	2150
	17.29	5760	175.2	2300	2160
	17.71	5920	170.7	2250	2120
	18.13	6080	172.9	2220	2020
	18.5	6240	163.2	2190	2090
	18.92	6400	157.9	2160	2100
	19.31	6520	163.2	2130	2030
	19.73	6680	154.1	2100	2040
	20.12	6760	163.2	2080	2020
	20.51	6320	12.8	980	1650

After

14:45				
				
Group A:	'115			
	RPM	Load	Pressure	Pressure
TSTAMP	RPM	%	mbar	mbar
0	720	18.8	980	970
0.41	720	18.8	980	970
6.45	1760	78.9	1950	1060
6.86	1800	85.7	1950	1130
7.27	1920	91	2040	1200
7.67	2040	100	2170	1290
8.07	2200	109.8	2190	1390
8.47	2400	119.5	2220	1530
8.88	2600	135.3	2260	1700
9.29	2800	157.1	2330	1970
9.69	3040	185.7	2370	2390
10.08	3360	191.7	2390	2540
10.48	3640	191.7	2400	2540
10.89	3960	191.7	2420	2470
11.29	4240	191.7	2410	2410
11.7	4480	191.7	2390	2380
12.1	4760	191	2360	2320
12.5	5000	188	2340	2280
12.91	5240	187.2	2320	2180
13.31	5440	181.2	2320	2170
13.7	5680	174.4	2280	2170
14.11	5880	167.7	2240	2140
14.52	6080	174.4	2190	2040
14.91	6240	162.4	2160	2100
15.33	6400	163.2	2120	2050
15.71	6560	163.2	2000	2090
16.12	6720	158.6	1900	2080
16.52	6640	24.1	980	2290

After 5000rpm its all pants, but MR. 3" DP might help me out.

Also i would be interested in the standard map figures, it would give us a benchmark.

We should also do a pre RR checklist.

 

[JamJay]

I don't really understand mbar readings yet, what is 2540mbar telling you?

 

[rsmith]

I don't really understand mbar readings yet, what is 2540mbar telling you?

2540 mbar = 2.54 Bar(36psi) - 1000mbar(1bar/14.5psi) for atmospherice pressue = 1.54bar(22.3psi)
This sensor on block 115 cannot read anything over 2540mbar, so you cannot see my boost spike.

Basically the more boost(within reason) made by the turbo the more power you can make along with some other factors.

before i was not generating this much boost becasue i had a leak.

This is the way i always understood it, please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[DJ-LIAMC]

2540mbar is telling you 1.54bar, just take away 1.bar. im only boosting 1.24bar max on my stage 1, may need adjusting

Edit: i didnt realise you take away 1.1bar from logs? so im only boosting 1.14bar then (16psi) but my boost gauge reads 18-19 which is 1.24bar?

 

[rsmith]

2540mbar is telling you 1.54bar, just take away 1.bar. im only boosting 1.24bar max on my stage 1, may need adjusting

Edit: i didnt realise you take away 1.1bar from logs? so im only boosting 1.14bar then (16psi) but my boost gauge reads 18-19 which is 1.24bar?

Is that your peak actual boost?

 

[rsmith]

2540mbar is telling you 1.54bar, just take away 1.bar. im only boosting 1.24bar max on my stage 1, may need adjusting

Edit: i didnt realise you take away 1.1bar from logs? so im only boosting 1.14bar then (16psi) but my boost gauge reads 18-19 which is 1.24bar?

No, you were right, its actually 1013mbar according to the tweakers guide, NOT 1100mbar.
i have re-adjusted my figures

 

[DJ-LIAMC]

actual boost is 1.23 held until around 5000rpm, so just under 18psi

 

[DJ-LIAMC]

Just checked your SIG, noticed you have 19" bbs alloys, dont bigger alloys cause a loss in power delivery?

 

[rsmith]

Just checked your SIG, noticed you have 19" bbs alloys, dont bigger alloys cause a loss in power delivery?

probably, but they are actually the same weight at the OEM LCR alloys and i am running a 225 profile on the front, so not much of an increase on the rubber to tarmac ratio.

Also my graph was measured at the flywheel.

 

[rsmith]

Righto, i did up a quick graph of 115 to see before and after i fixed the leak.

Broken lines Red and Green = requested boost.

Solid Red and Green lines = Actual boost.

So Green = Before and Red = After

You can see after my adjustments the solid Red line boosts alot higher as opposed the the solid green line.

And yes i am a nerd

 

[Mr OCD]

Isn't the Dyno Dynamics well known for showing a lot less than other rollers?

Yup it is and its something I've mentioned before...

 

[rsmith]

Yup it is and its something I've mentioned before...

Yes, but the question is, does it show accurate readings or does it under read!!!