acceptable afr for a lcr (mapped)

[GlasgowRob]

had the lcr on the dyno today and operator says she's running lean by quite a bit

reading a few threads on here leads me to believe its not as bad as it seems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLj1m91KJA&feature=channel

can be seen over a run at the end of this video


dips no lower than 12 from a high of 14 through the rev range


anyone care to tell me if this is acceptable for a lcr and if not would adding a 4bar FPR be enough to bring it into acceptable terms

Cheers

Rob

 

[8bit]

Old thread resurrection! Did you ever get to the bottom of this? I had my unmapped LCR on the rollers recently and mine stayed pretty much at 14, operator reckoned this could be a problem. Think I've ruled out the MAF in my case. Any ideas, or are unmapped LCRs meant to stay about 14?

 

[GlanzaV]

I was told this about my AMK 210 LCR a couple of weeks ago 8-Bit. I ran it on the rollers at Monster Performance in Whitburn (Evo specialist)

I have been to a RR before where a lot of the SEAT Ibiza Cupras (mine included that day) was told that they were running a bit lean. I don't know if this has to do with the way the lambda probe sits up the exhaust, it seems to read ok for other cars though?

 

[8bit]

I was told this about my AMK 210 LCR a couple of weeks ago 8-Bit. I ran it on the rollers at Monster Performance in Whitburn (Evo specialist)

I have been to a RR before where a lot of the SEAT Ibiza Cupras (mine included that day) was told that they were running a bit lean. I don't know if this has to do with the way the lambda probe sits up the exhaust, it seems to read ok for other cars though?

Thanks for the response mate, struggling to get anywhere with this and I'm concerned in case my car is running too lean! I had some logs done at the weekend, both with my MAF and with Willie's as his is known to work. Read last night that you can multiply the Lambda readings from block 31 on VAGCOM logs by 14.7 to give the AFR so I did that for both Lambda figures (not sure which one is relevant or both) for the logs with each MAF and came up with these figures and graphs:

I presume that one Lambda figure (and resulting AFR calculation) is requested and the other is actual, like boost figures but I'm not sure. In any case, from the VAGCOM logs on both of these it doesn't look like either is richening up much, the one on Willie's MAF does slightly on one of the Lambda to AFR calculations but not to anything like 12, like was suggested in the OP's post.

There was another LCR at the same RR day, he was on the rollers immediately before me. We think his car is remapped (or he was told it is) and his richened up to about 12.5 which the operator said was ok, so I'm half wondering if the richening up thing is more relevant to remapped cars. Below is the AFR graph that was taken from my car using the exhaust probe on the day:

So I'm not sure where I go from here. Don't think the MAF is at fault, mine only gives slightly worse figures than Willie's and he says his is fairly new (no idea how old mine is, it was on the car when I got it). I'm told that these things should richen up when the engine is under high revs as a way of keeping cylinder temps down so am a bit worried I could be damaging stuff if I drive it hard...

 

[ibizacupra]

log block 031 and 001, and report to us what 032 says now

 

[8bit]

Cheers Bill. I logged block 31 at the weekend there (amongst other things, mostly MAF and boost related). I'll need to wait til I can get hold of Al or someone else with VAGCOM again, hopefully soon, before I can get blocks 001 and 32. Are you thinking lambda sensor related? Is that AFR curve actually anything to worry about?

Anyway, these logs were taken using my MAF:

Saturday	4	September	2010	15:22:06:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	002				Group B:	020				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	0.61	1840	95.5	8.16	36.58	0.03	0	0	0	0	0.29	1840	92.5	1600	1200
	12.67	720	20.3	1.7	3.03	12.97	0	0	0	0	12.38	760	20.3	990	1000
	13.57	1200	15	1.36	3.28	13.88	0	0	0	0	13.27	960	17.3	990	1000
	14.49	1120	15	1.7	3.39	14.78	0	0	0	0	14.17	1120	15	990	1000
	15.38	1200	75.9	7.48	18.56	15.68	0	0	0	0	15.08	1120	77.4	1430	990
	16.3	1440	83.5	8.16	24.92	16.59	0	0	0	0	15.99	1360	80.5	1500	1060
	17.21	1720	93.2	8.5	31.44	17.5	0	0	0	0	16.9	1600	91.7	1660	1160
	18.11	2000	103.8	9.86	42.42	18.41	0	0	0	0	17.81	1880	99.2	1820	1270
	19.01	2360	130.1	12.24	64.22	19.32	0	0	0	0	18.7	2200	121.1	1940	1460
	19.92	2800	161.7	15.64	93.86	20.22	0	0	0	0	19.62	2640	150.4	1800	1820
	20.83	3280	154.9	14.28	98.86	21.13	0	0	0	0	20.52	3120	159.4	1810	1880
	21.73	3760	156.4	14.28	110	22.03	0	0	0	0	21.43	3600	154.9	1820	1840
	22.94	4400	155.6	14.62	132	23.24	0	0	0	0	22.68	4080	155.6	1810	1840
	23.84	4840	152.6	13.94	143.69	24.15	0	0	0	0	23.54	4680	154.1	1820	1790
	24.75	5280	154.9	14.28	156.53	25.05	0	0	0	0	24.45	5120	153.4	1840	1810
	25.65	5680	155.6	14.62	173.97	25.96	0	0	0	0	25.35	5520	154.9	1910	1870
	26.56	6080	154.1	14.62	180.94	26.87	0	0	0	0	26.25	5960	157.9	1910	1860
	27.47	6440	147.4	13.6	181.25	27.76	0	0	0	0	27.17	6280	151.1	1800	1850
	28.38	6720	145.9	13.94	168.56	28.68	0	0	0	0	28.08	6640	138.3	1690	1760
	29.27	5760	14.3	1.7	9.64	29.57	0	0	0	0	28.98	6240	13.5	990	1300
	30.18	4520	11.3	0	9.5	30.48	0	0	0	0	29.88	4960	14.3	990	1070
	31.07	3240	12.8	0	8.11	31.39	0	0	0	0	30.78	3640	12	990	1040
	31.98	2120	15	0	6.22	32.29	0	0	0	0	31.69	2480	13.5	990	1030
	32.88	1280	16.5	1.36	4.11	33.19	0	0	0	0	32.58	1480	14.3	990	1020
	33.8	1480	14.3	1.7	4.03	34.1	0	0	0	0	33.49	1200	15	990	1010
	34.7	2320	55.6	5.44	27.81	35.01	0	0	0	0	34.4	2320	50.4	990	1000
	35.61	2360	75.2	7.14	36.94	35.91	0	0	0	0	35.31	2360	69.9	1130	1060
	36.52	2360	63.2	5.1	21.5	36.82	0	0	0	0	36.21	2360	81.2	1240	1210

Saturday	4	September	2010	15:20:09:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	010				Group B:	031				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Load	Ign. Timing		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP					STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	0.32	3480	49.6	11.4	33.8	0.61	0.94	1	        	        	0.03	3440	97.7	1290	1430
	36.81	1120	15.8	3.9	-8.3	36.22	0.96	0.95	        	        	36.51	800	19.5	990	990
	37.72	1720	15.8	5.5	-6.8	37.11	1.06	0.95	        	        	37.42	1760	15.8	990	990
	38.93	1640	13.5	5.1	-7.5	38.38	0.84	1.05	        	        	38.63	1680	13.5	990	1000
	39.83	1440	13.5	4.7	-8.3	39.22	1.99	1.05	        	        	39.52	1520	13.5	990	1000
	40.73	1200	14.3	4.3	-8.3	40.12	1.99	1.05	        	        	40.44	1280	14.3	990	1000
	41.64	1080	16.5	4.3	9	41.04	1.99	0.95	        	        	41.33	1120	15.8	990	1000
	42.54	1240	77.4	58.8	3	41.94	1.45	0.95	        	        	42.24	1200	76.7	1440	990
	43.46	1520	85.7	69	13.5	42.85	0.93	0.95	        	        	43.15	1400	82.7	1560	1080
	44.36	1800	94.7	81.6	13.5	43.75	0.95	0.95	        	        	44.05	1680	92.5	1730	1180
	45.27	2120	113.5	92.5	11.3	44.66	0.96	0.95	        	        	44.95	2000	104.5	1890	1300
	46.17	2560	139.8	100	10.5	45.57	0.96	0.95	        	        	45.86	2400	130.1	1840	1580
	47.08	3040	163.2	100	6.8	46.46	0.96	0.95	        	        	46.77	2880	164.7	1810	1960
	47.98	3560	156.4	100	15	47.38	0.95	0.95	        	        	47.68	3360	157.1	1830	1840
	48.89	4040	154.9	100	16.5	48.28	0.96	0.95	        	        	48.58	3880	158.6	1820	1840
	49.79	4520	152.6	100	18.8	49.19	0.95	0.95	        	        	49.49	4360	155.6	1820	1800
	50.7	4960	152.6	100	16.5	50.09	0.95	0.95	        	        	50.4	4800	155.6	1810	1800
	51.6	5360	154.9	100	16.5	51	0.95	0.95	        	        	51.3	5240	149.6	1870	1840
	52.51	5800	161.7	100	16.5	51.9	0.95	0.95	        	        	52.22	5680	161.7	1920	1900
	53.41	6160	160.2	100	17.3	52.81	0.95	0.95	        	        	53.11	6040	157.9	1890	1850
	54.33	6480	141.4	100	21.8	53.72	0.94	0.95	        	        	54.02	6360	157.9	1790	1800
	55.22	6720	128.6	100	24	54.63	0.95	0.95	        	        	54.92	6640	137.6	1680	1740
	56.13	5440	14.3	10.6	4.5	55.54	0.79	1	        	        	55.83	5920	14.3	990	1200

And these logs were with Willie's MAF:

Saturday	4	September	2010	14:44:43:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	2				Group B:	20				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	473.15	1240	13.5	0	3.33	473.44	0	0	0	0	472.84	1240	13.5	990	1000
	474.06	1240	19.5	3.4	7.25	474.65	0	0	0	0	473.75	1200	13.5	990	1000
	475.27	1480	83.5	7.82	26.19	475.57	0	0	0	0	474.96	1400	81.2	1570	1040
	476.16	1760	93.2	8.84	33.81	476.47	0	0	0	0	475.87	1680	91	1690	1140
	477.08	2080	107.5	10.2	47.47	477.37	0	0	0	0	476.77	1960	100.8	1860	1270
	477.98	2480	134.6	12.58	70.06	478.28	0	0	0	0	477.67	2320	126.3	1900	1510
	478.89	2960	169.2	15.98	95.72	479.19	0	0	0	0	478.58	2800	160.9	1810	1910
	479.79	3440	159.4	14.62	102.44	480.09	0	0	0	0	479.49	3280	161.7	1820	1850
	480.7	3920	159.4	14.28	121.72	481	0	0	0	0	480.4	3800	160.2	1840	1850
	481.6	4400	156.4	14.28	133.83	481.9	0	0	0	0	481.3	4240	157.1	1830	1810
	482.51	4880	154.9	13.94	141.44	482.82	0	0	0	0	482.21	4720	154.9	1820	1840
	483.41	5280	160.9	14.62	159.14	483.71	0	0	0	0	483.11	5160	153.4	1840	1810
	484.32	5680	164.7	14.96	178.89	484.62	0	0	0	0	484.02	5560	156.4	1920	1890
	485.23	6080	159.4	14.62	183.64	485.53	0	0	0	0	484.92	5920	164.7	1920	1880
	486.13	6400	158.6	14.62	182.36	486.44	0	0	0	0	485.84	6280	155.6	1820	1910
	487.04	6680	142.1	13.26	173.61	487.34	0	0	0	0	486.73	6600	139.8	1710	1810
	487.95	5760	14.3	1.7	9.69	488.24	0	0	0	0	487.65	6320	12	990	1390
	488.84	4600	14.3	0	11.36	489.14	0	0	0	0	488.54	5000	14.3	990	1060
	489.76	3280	12.8	0	8.69	490.04	0	0	0	0	489.45	3680	12	990	1040
	490.66	2160	14.3	0	6.06	490.95	0	0	0	0	490.36	2520	13.5	990	1020

Saturday	4	September	2010	14:58:15:65413	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 (x64)	Data version: 20100630									
1ML 906 032 A		1.8l R4/5VT         0002													
															
	Group A:	010				Group B:	031				Group C:	115			
		RPM	Load	Load	Ign. Timing		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP					STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	109.95	1720	13.5	5.5	-6.8	110.23	1.99	1.05	        	        	110.53	1720	14.3	990	1000
	110.85	1680	13.5	5.1	-7.5	111.14	1.99	1.05	        	        	111.44	1640	13.5	990	1000
	111.74	1600	13.5	5.1	-7.5	112.04	1.99	1.05	        	        	112.34	1520	13.5	990	1000
	112.65	1480	13.5	4.7	-7.5	112.95	1.99	1.05	        	        	113.25	1320	13.5	990	1000
	113.55	1280	13.5	4.3	-8.3	113.85	1.99	1.05	        	        	114.15	1200	13.5	990	1000
	114.46	1160	14.3	4.7	-5.3	114.76	1.99	0.95	        	        	115.06	1200	21.8	990	990
	115.36	1240	78.9	58	12	115.67	0.84	0.95	        	        	115.97	1360	81.2	1510	1040
	116.28	1440	83.5	66.7	12.8	116.57	0.97	0.95	        	        	116.87	1640	90.2	1680	1140
	117.18	1720	93.2	78.8	12.8	117.48	0.96	0.95	        	        	117.78	1960	100.8	1850	1270
	118.08	2080	108.3	91.4	11.3	118.39	0.96	0.95	        	        	118.69	2320	127.8	1890	1510
	118.99	2480	136.8	98.8	10.5	119.29	0.98	0.95	        	        	119.59	2760	160.9	1800	1900
	119.9	2960	169.9	100	3.8	120.2	0.94	0.95	        	        	120.5	3280	160.9	1820	1860
	120.8	3440	159.4	100	12	121.1	0.96	0.95	        	        	121.4	3760	158.6	1830	1830
	121.71	3920	160.9	100	14.3	122.01	0.96	0.95	        	        	122.31	4240	157.9	1820	1840
	122.61	4400	159.4	100	17.3	122.92	0.95	0.95	        	        	123.22	4720	152.6	1810	1830
	123.52	4880	155.6	100	15.8	123.82	0.95	0.95	        	        	124.44	5160	158.6	1850	1800
	124.73	5400	163.9	100	15	125.03	0.98	0.95	        	        	125.33	5680	159.4	1920	1890
	125.63	5800	160.9	100	15.8	125.93	0.94	0.95	        	        	126.23	6040	156.4	1880	1880
	126.54	6200	157.9	99.6	17.3	126.84	0.94	0.95	        	        	127.14	6400	151.1	1790	1860
	127.44	6480	150.4	99.6	19.5	127.74	0.95	0.95	        	        	128.05	6680	142.1	1640	1760
	128.35	6360	12	8.2	8.3	128.66	0.77	0.96	        	        	128.96	5320	14.3	990	1110