Jabba IHI, Still ongoing

[ibizacupra]

bill dan and mike were all there.
As I've tried to explain on many ocassions, trans losses are measured inertia losses.
The rr has a known inertia, and it calculates how fast the inertia is accelerated, and thus calculates power. The inertia of the drive train is calculated on the run down, and added to the rr inertia to give a fly wheel figure.

If the RR has high inertia then the inertia of the drivetrain is less significant, and therefore lower 'measured' transmission(inertial) losses.

If your drivetrain actualy lost 40hp (30kW) it would mostly be converted to heat. Your boiler in your house is <30kW at full pelt. Put the heater from your boiler under your gearbox, and see how long it takes before your gearbox melts.

Drive train losses are 5% at most. If they were more then there'd be a lot of engineers on the dole.

Ultimately JBS rr shows standard power on standard cars, so it can't be far off.

any ideas why James's software could'nt cope with my g'box on coast down? Can't think why myself.. Only diff being he declutched on mine vs engaged neutral on others.. hence only being able to do atw figures..
Shame as I wanted to see what the dog box losses were..

oh well.

 

[Wilko]

Don't know bill, but yours seemed to get some slip between the rollers and the wheels as he dipped the clutch. That'd be my guess as to why the software threw a wobly.

I think if he'd spent more time on it, he'd have got there, but I think he was a little scared after the few runs he did. Maybe at next month scn day you can get the car on earlier in the day when his nerves may be less shattered.

 

[BenS1]

any ideas why James's software could'nt cope with my g'box on coast down? Can't think why myself.. Only diff being he declutched on mine vs engaged neutral on others.. hence only being able to do atw figures..
Shame as I wanted to see what the dog box losses were..

oh well.

Surely you can't calculate transmission losses by putting it into neutral, as surely the losses will be different when in gear?!?!? Maybe not a lot but a bit.

Ben

 

[BenS1]

16th of October there having a laugh aint they. I am sick of this bollocks. Well here's one customer who is now looking very doubtful. I have enough!!!!!!!!!!!.

Phone them and tell them how you feel. Get a firm date and tell them that you don't want it to slip.

Failing that, get the bits and get it done elsewhere as you said.

I'm not very patient either!

Ben

 

[ibizacupra]

Don't know bill, but yours seemed to get some slip between the rollers and the wheels as he dipped the clutch. That'd be my guess as to why the software threw a wobly.

I think if he'd spent more time on it, he'd have got there, but I think he was a little scared after the few runs he did. Maybe at next month scn day you can get the car on earlier in the day when his nerves may be less shattered.

LOL... the software (fast as it is with his digital aquisition) could'nt keep up with the engine acceleration in the mid range, but caught up at the top end when it was running out of puff. (plots show a 500+rpm lag in top end peak power vs real peak power, and lagged >1000rpm earlier in the run...

Balancing act between phasing of the inertia roll in & applied load... not that I am conversant in his dyno's controls. Had it on load 7, then 6, and 6th gear run then 4th then 5th in the end... He bounced off the limiter cos the displayed RR rpm was lagging... hence head butted the limiter before he could react to its displayed laggy reading.. Its spool up is very aggressive as you saw.. Very punchy.

dyno used was>> http://www.piperdynamometers.com/rolling.htm

Next time.. Should have Aquamist on there too. See if any gains/losses

 

[SPS]

oh something i beat you too, got it on mine and it works a treat - feels like a Vtec motor - at about 5.5K you feel a little extra shove, its great.

Jabba did it so it comes in at 10 PSI and above runs off the washer bottle should run a 50% water 50% screen wash with methanol in it.

 

[m0rk]

You run screenwash in your engine?

 

[ibizacupra]

Squeaky clean...

 

[m0rk]

lol. well - i was just thinking how careful you'd have to be to ensure that you put something that was engine friendly in the washer bottle that's all.

 

[Madmile]

Custardcupra spoke to Elton Today he has been cofirmed as next on the IHI list after Ben, i am after custardcupra as Elton told me. Custardcupra has been told today either the last week of October or 1st week of November. That would make me 1st or 2nd week of November.

I really hope so!!!!!!!!!

 

[CustardCupra]

Yeah Elton has said mine is the next car after Bens1, altho' it should have been first which Elton has apologised for the **** up.
As long as its done soon i don't care.
End of October beginning of November will be fine by me.

 

[BenS1]

Yeah Elton has said mine is the next car after Bens1, altho' it should have been first which Elton has apologised for the **** up.
As long as its done soon i don't care.
End of October beginning of November will be fine by me.

The fact that you were before me was a ****-up in the first place, as I was the very very first person on the list (Even before Bill), as I put my name on the list just after the Powerstation RR day that Bill organised about 2.5 years ago!!!! They then completely lost my details and I had to be put back on the list but by now there were other people in front of me.

Hopefully we'll all be done and happy by the middle of November.

Talking of dynos.... if you want a very accurate reading and ZERO wheel slip then use one of these babys:

http://www.dynapackusa.com/tech.htm

It actually attaches to your hubs and can handle upto 2200bhp!

As for Aquamist mixtures... my understanding is that 75% water 25% methanol is best. The Aquamist site itself says that with a 50:50 mix you are right at the point where the methanol will actually INCREASE the temperatures.

Also, theres no way in the world I'll be using screen wash. Also note that most screen washes I've looked at don't actually contain methanol. Some contain Ethanol instead of Methanol, which you should NOT use (See the Aquamist FAQ).

Another final consideration for Methanol is that it corrodes most rubbers, plastics and metals and this will lead to nossle blockages. Its safe to assume that the washer bottle is methanol safe as its designed to hold screen wash (And some contain methanol as you know) but is the pipework Methanol safe?

Cheers
Ben

 

[ibizacupra]

whats meths then.... coloured methanol?

chemists?

 

[SPS]

at the mo i'm just running water as i cant afford any screen wash of any sort still does the job ok though

 

[m0rk]

whats meths then.... coloured methanol?

chemists?

Far from it

Methylated spirits ("metho") is a mixture of ethyl alcohol (95%) and methyl alcohol (%5). The methyl alcohol is poisonous and is added to prevent the methylated spirits being used as cheap drinking alcohol.

 

[BenS1]

whats meths then.... coloured methanol?

chemists?

You've not read the Aquamist FAQ either have you?

It says that you must not use Meths or Ethanol.

Ben

 

[SPS]

yeah i have read the FAQ section.

Remember that screenwash is not 100% methanol it will be less then half prob(guess dont kill me if i'm wrong), so the ratio for water to methanol is more likely to be 75 water / 25 methanol which is what the say is about right - well i hope.

gonna be a few more insane ibiza's around then should be good. i got used to mine well quick and i now want more power and hopefully go for a nitrous system that elton is doing around christmas but have to wait and see. should hope to hit the magic 400BHP+ mark with a 50 jet.

 

[BenS1]

yeah i have read the FAQ section.

Remember that screenwash is not 100% methanol it will be less then half prob(guess dont kill me if i'm wrong), so the ratio for water to methanol is more likely to be 75 water / 25 methanol which is what the say is about right - well i hope.

gonna be a few more insane ibiza's around then should be good. i got used to mine well quick and i now want more power and hopefully go for a nitrous system that elton is doing around christmas but have to wait and see. should hope to hit the magic 400BHP+ mark with a 50 jet.

Good point, I assumed you meant 50% water, 50% methanol, but you actually said 50% water 50% screenwash, which does end up with approx 75% water 25% methanol. Well, most Methanol based screen washes are 40% methanol, so its close enough.

Note though, always check that the screenwash does contain Methanol and not Ethanol.

Cheers
Ben

 

[BenS1]

I just phoned Elton to double check that my date is 100% firm and wont slip as I'm booking a trackday for 6th November. He said that yes its 100% firm and wont slip, but their new Rolling Road isn't working yet, so they wont be able to map my car until a bit later.

He said the car will still be safe to run on track though, and wont run lean or anything. I'm guessing/hoping that they give me a copy of someone elses IHI map to begin with (Shanes?), maybe with a bit of extra safety margin, and then they will custom map mine a bit later on.

Cheers
Ben

 

[CustardCupra]

If Jabbas RR isn't working yet then that doesn't sound too promising for the rest of us and my PENCILED in date of being after you Ben(last week of October) looks shaky.
Its a 4 1/2 hr drive for me to Jabba so i won't be happy if i don't get a proper map and have to go back down for a custom map.