Newbie- basic Q's on me new motor!

[Zoot]

It might be worth trying to set off on the hill using the handbrake to hold the car until the clutch is biting (unless you are already doing that?)

Does it happen when you are on a flat road? If yes then that would indicate the gear linkage issue.

Hi Dan,

no it only happens on an incline. Now, this would of course suggest I'm being inept. But not so.
If the incline is steeper, then one would of course use the handbrake. So I'm referring to a gentle slope only.

It is very difficult for me to explain it seems, in boxes of text, but I have no alternative. So I'll try again, clearer:

1) I've pulled over on the LHS of an empty b-road. It has a gentle forward slope.
2) The car is running, my indicator on.
3) My foot is on the brake, I've only pulled over after all.

Right this the bit where the "issue" happens:

4) I put the car into 1st gear
5) I transfer my Right foot off the brake over to the accelerator
6) At this RH foot transfer, the car remains stationary
7) I find & feel the bite point using the clutch + accelerator (as I've been doing so, in every car I've had since 1989, all manuals, all bar one VW too)

Now this is the crux. This is where this car is acting differently to any I've had, or driven..

8) I indicate R, check mirrors, & gently squeeze the accelerator
9) Whilst gently squeezing the accelerator, I of course gently release the clutch
10) The car moves backwards.

I have initiated this move by using the two pedals. This is not a question of momentarily being in neutral, nor is it a momentary situation of the car not being in gear whilst my two feet are to-froing between the clutch & accelerator.

11) The car moves let's call it 1 yard backwards
12) I continue to gently squeeze the accelerator (I have not lifted my R foot at all)
13) The car switches from reverse momentum, to forward momentum.
14) I am now in familiar territory: the car is working normally
15) Off I go

So I am without question, innitiating this reverse momentum with the accelerator pedal, if for only 1yd before it changes to forward momentum: I can't call it "reverse gear" because I'm not in reverse gear.

Thanks, Zoot

 

[DanMCGARRETT]

Got you, I can't really think of anything else that would explain it, unless there's a fault with the hill hold assist - it should only activate on a significant gradient but if there's a fault it might be activating/releasing early

 

[Zoot]

Got you, I can't really think of anything else that would explain it, unless there's a fault with the hill hold assist - it should only activate on a significant gradient but if there's a fault it might be activating/releasing early

It doesn't feel like any assist thing not working. Although tbh Ive never heard of such a thing, so actually don't know what you mean!

I still don't think Ive explained it properly yet still. If I can maybe get my Ma to hold my iPad while I video a brief clip, of me driving the bloomin thing, stick it on YouTube. Do a link. That'll sure as likely get 3m views.

In the meantime, maybe at the least I might win a prize for the most boring series of posts, on any forum by a human. But maybe I'm 3/4 neanderthal.. I've always suspected I might well be.

Thanks, Zoot

 

[DanMCGARRETT]

Hill hold assist just holds the brake pressure for 3 seconds when on a gradient to allow the driver to move from brake to accelerator. From the sounds of it, there doesn't seem to be any issue with that so I can't think of anything else that may indicate a fault or issue.

 

[Zoot]

Hill hold assist just holds the brake pressure for 3 seconds when on a gradient to allow the driver to move from brake to accelerator. From the sounds of it, there doesn't seem to be any issue with that so I can't think of anything else that may indicate a fault or issue.

Aha I get it. It (my issue thing) might just be an idiosyncracy of diesel cars. You might not recognise it, due to sheer familiarity.

When one get's a new car, you're always extra gentle with the accelerator just bc of getting used to it/ where it's bite point is/ how sudden it is all being unfamiliar.. especially so for me coming from a 1.4i to a 2.0tdi. So I suspect I -might- be overtly aware, of just the way it is. You for eg, might inherently step on that pedal more immediately, kinda muscle memory, to overcome this brief shift backwards/ ironing it out pronto as it were.

 

[SuperV8]

It doesn't feel like any assist thing not working. Although tbh Ive never heard of such a thing, so actually don't know what you mean!

I still don't think Ive explained it properly yet still. If I can maybe get my Ma to hold my iPad while I video a brief clip, of me driving the bloomin thing, stick it on YouTube. Do a link. That'll sure as likely get 3m views.

In the meantime, maybe at the least I might win a prize for the most boring series of posts, on any forum by a human. But maybe I'm 3/4 neanderthal.. I've always suspected I might well be.

Thanks, Zoot

If you are on a gradient and take your foot of the brake, to the accelerator and the car doesn't move then the hill hold assist is working.

The Leon hill hold assist will hold all the brakes on for a few seconds (when on a hill) while you find the bite point and pull away. It doesn't activate when on the flat - and I do find some slight gradients which must be on its threshold of working or not, like my drive, sometimes it holds and other times it doesn't.

My guess would be you were on a slight incline, enough for hill hold to activate, you took your foot off the brake and onto the accelerator to find the bite point - but didn't manage to do this in time and the hill hold released letting you roll back a meter.

There is no way anything mechanical in the gearbox could ever cause you to drive backwards, and then forwards.

 

[Zoot]

If you are on a gradient and take your foot of the brake, to the accelerator and the car doesn't move then the hill hold assist is working.

The Leon hill hold assist will hold all the brakes on for a few seconds (when on a hill) while you find the bite point and pull away. It doesn't activate when on the flat - and I do find some slight gradients which must be on its threshold of working or not, like my drive, sometimes it holds and other times it doesn't.

My guess would be you were on a slight incline, enough for hill hold to activate, you took your foot off the brake and onto the accelerator to find the bite point - but didn't manage to do this in time and the hill hold released letting you roll back a meter.

There is no way anything mechanical in the gearbox could ever cause you to drive backwards, and then forwards.

Hi V8, this makes alot of sense.

But still your guess isn't tallying with what I experience: that being I drive backwards exactly in conjunction with my pressing the accelerator. Exactly in conjunction as you'd only ever expect it to move forwards. Whist you instinctively feel the bite point I mean (& release clutch whilst pressing accelerator). No movement a fraction before, or afterwards, suggesting something else is interacting (ie hill assist) correctly or incorrectly.

I think then, it's either this hill hold assist is not working properly.. or as I'm seemingly beginning to think, that the car just does this/ that there is no fault/ why it should is just unanswerable.

It is incredibly confusing, & was very alarming: should a car have been close behind I'd have backed into them, should a pedestrian have been there I'd have possibly knocked them over (unlikely yes, but feintly feasable). Your instinct isn't to continue pressing the accelerator, so then it travels forwards, it is instead to put your foot on brake > neutral > go into full confusion & slight panic > put into 1st & try again, gentler this second time. If the car gods backwards again... all these natural reactions are heightened.

It drives backwards by pressing the accelerator whilst in 1st or 2nd, from a gentle incline start. There's no question about it. It does so only for a yard, meaning I can get used to it mostly by memory to -always- put handbrake on, on any incline, & not trust this hill assist whatsoever. But does this mean there is a fault.. or there isn't?? This is the (rhetorical) question you can't answer. My dealer didn't even look at it, so what do I do (again I ask rhetorically) take it to a main UK Seat dealer at my considerable expense to find the answer??

Absolute head f*** which my dealer should have resolved, or at least aleiviated my concerns about.

Thanks, Zoot

 

[SuperV8]

Does it do this with the handbrake - in a normal hill start?

 

[Zoot]

@SuperV8

Drove it again today, & for first time was able to feel what the hill assist does. So again, I found myself on a slight backwards gradient, foot on brake at a T-junction p. I took foot off & usually, in my old golf for eg (plus any car I've had or driven too) I'd expect the car to shift backwards once I took foot off the brake. I had no-one behind me, so took foot off brake... car usefully stayed solidly put: so now I was conscious of the hill assist, what it does, how useful & well-designed it could be considered, & also whether it seemed to be working (which it seems, it was at this juncture).

So I find the bite point whilst releasing clutch, I can feel the bite point, all perfectly intuitive.. & gently press the accelerator whilst backing the clutch out, again all intuitively. It goes backwards a yard. Then goes forwards correctly. I have innitiated this backwards shift, by my use of the two pedals either side of the brake; there is absolutely no doubt about this. It is not suddenly going into neutral either: I'm in fwd gear: I feel the bite a split-second before the car moves backwards.

So. Whether this is the 'hill assist getting slightly carried away' I am kinda hedging my bets on. IE I get the feeling, now, that it has something to do with the hill assist. It is in conjunction with it.

Whether that is a fault.. I could only say by comparison to another identical car. Which isn't gonna happen. So I'm rather left in limbo. And left considering things until my head hurts. Is it yet still a linkage issue?? Is it a sole capacitor polarity wrong?? Is it a hydraulic fluid brake thing?? Or is it entirely normally functioning??

Urgh. Anyway what can you do. Zoot

 

[Zoot]

Does it do this with the handbrake - in a normal hill start?

No. I can use car perfectly normally in a hill start situation. Which is what you simply do, if the gradient is above a certain degree, IE again the word intuition is apt to use here.

The difference with a hill start, is you tend to make that bite point REALLY felt solidly 1st, before releasing the (hand) brake. With my situation, the brake pedal is off beforehand, then you go to feel the bite point more gently. The car may briefly roll back in neutral whilst you transition your R foot from brake to the accelerator (on a normal car that is: on a car that doesn't have "hill assist").... but that is distinctly NOT what I'm describing as happening.

Thanks, Zoot