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Navigation System Updates

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I'm a bit confused. I have updated my 2016 VW Polo to the latest maps (AUSTRALIA 1420 v12.7), but my SHIELD VERSION is still showing:

SHIELD 2016-03 (build 020)

How do I upgrade this so it is showing SHIELD 2016-44 (build 309) like others have in this thread?
I believe the shield is related to the hardware / firmware which obviously is fixed in a map update. You have a VW Polo and everybody else more or less has a Seat on the thread. You can run a Google on SHIELD 2016-03 (build 020) SHIELD 2016-44 (build 309) both in the query, the question has been asked but I can see no answer yet... The build 020 seems to come up against Skoda and VW units a lot although there are some Seats with it.

I would not worry about it. The main thing is the maps are updated. Somebody might give you a better answer who is into the hardware. Take it as a fact of life. I ruled out its not related to you living in Australia with the Ozzie maps :). I have always ignored the shield line as technical gibberish, the map serial number is the important one within the zone of release. It's probably a boot loader for QNX / version which the unit runs on rather than anything too special. Some run on one, the others run on another and they (VAG) are the two they contracted for with QNX (now owned by BlackBerry) for the mib 2 standard. The Tegra processor in the mib2 is made by Nvidia and Nvidia like to use the name "shield" in their products.... (get a prize for the best answer ?). Suspect the programmers titled the box "shield" inline with other Nvidia products.
 
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CupraRST

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Feb 25, 2020
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You won't loose your Cupra icons they are controlled by VCDS. They are stored elsewhere. It only updates the maps. Saved destinations and user POIs are left as is as well. Just the map memory.

With regard to downgrading a built in feature is that you can downgrade as well as upgrade, latter controlled by FeCs. So as long as the map series number is greater than what you have it's an upgrade. It will also show that on the screen once you have finished. Information / about what ever that option is.

Whilst running the update on the unit in the background disables navigation during the process you should come out the other end fine. Some people drive to work, turn the engine off, drive back and find the maps updated. You can always sit with the car with the engine running for the period :). The unit powers off about 20 minutes after the door is last closed with the engine off. You can do it off battery, least in the developer mode which is how I do opening the door every 15 minutes / visit the car twice. Does take longer the front end way (up to two hours) but the advantage is it remembers where it got to and will start up again if it looses power from where it got to, developers menu, no you have to start again from scratch. It is designed to be updated the way you will do it.

If you have any doubts this is where it was done using the front screen using the UK not for life Mapcare using the VW download:


I was a spoil sport and worked out when their Mapcare would run out @paddy6789 given their FeC codes from Walone ;).

So Paddy can tell you how it went that way. It's just the normal VAG high map update using the timely VW website.
@Tell
In the meantime i've downloaded the zipped update file P187_N60S5MIBH3_EU_NT.7z from the VW map update page.
I also ordered a new SDHC card, because I didn't want to empty any of my cards already in use. So just waiting till that arrives, before unpacking this zipped file to it.
And than the big moment/hours of updating. It worked for @paddy6789 , so I'm hopefull it will work for me too!
 
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MIB3 Standard / High

Just when you think the music has stopped, stumbled over the new MIB3 Standard map up load file for the Leon 4 and I believe Ateca 2020... now where is @exciter these days. The download can be viewed on the VW site under a Tiguan 2020 Discover Media. Different to Mib 2 / 2.5 however those little NDS file pop out at you and overall.nds files are scattered around. eg.

C:\Users\Mate\Downloads\EUR_4PR031_FCT3WS-19144_Offline_Update.tar\MIB31_EUWO.UR5001\

It's snuggled up with other files as Mib2 standard which we recognise. I don't know whether the workaround works or whether the stable door got bolted up before the horse left it. Don't have a MIB3 standard unit and it will be a time. The .db files look interesting.

The question anyone with a Leon 4 / Ateca 2020 who is familiar with the workaround and has maps could give it a go - all risk to them. Reading the PDF on the link to the MIB3 Standard which gives you the VW process it appears there is no map card in these units now since the data import is via USB C. Like MIB2 High if the maps are held within and you force an incorrect copy you could have a problem. They may be validated to stop you doing this.

Raises a few question as to where your base overall.nds file is stored. Say for example you are on June 2020 maps you would take a copy of that download then that overall.nds file would be the one you would use in the future. If your car has come with old maps then you would be looking for that version...

Direct download link is this


  • Does the workaround work for future releases ?.
  • What download are we currently on for Leon 2020 uses... (June 2020 ?)
  • Do the UK ones now come with Mapcare beyond a year or free now or is it more of the same ?. (build codes will tell you that)

However there is a nasty signature appearing in the file PACKAGE.SLIST which might lock down the whole lot from wandering fingers. Sorry to break the news if that's the case. Let's hope Seat have seen sense and have adopted the same licensing of the product across the VAG group.

The Maps are getting on for 32 GB about the same size as the MIB2 high ones.

Doesn't stop here either... the Discover Pro maps (MIB3 High) is the same map upload as the Discover Standard assuming VW haven't messed up what they have on their screens (the two files are byte to byte identical). What Seat UK's version of the high might become apparent at some stage. Needs further research of the difference of the VW offering.

The press pack for the VW Mib3 covers the difference. Juke box isn't the salient point now of the two, but Smart connectivity:


New functions and an extensively redesigned menu navigation have
been introduced in the “Discover Media” and “Discover Pro” navigations
systems. They belong to the third generation of the modular infotainment
matrix (MIB3). The superior “Discover Pro” navigation system is now also
equipped with “App Connect Wireless”. This means that “Apple CarPlay™”
can be used to integrate many iPhone apps wirelessly.

&

In connection with “Discover Pro”, compatible Samsung
smartphones can serve as vehicle keys.


The processor is also said to run at 10 times the speed in Mib3 against Mib2.

Switching to looking at the Leon 4 user manual

https://secure-www.seat.ru/content/...03&_charset_=UTF-8&chapter=MOD-NAV&category=1

Appropriate section attached. For off-line updates USB-C is the only way of updating the maps, online is via the connected services as you pass through region's. Maps would appear to be stored in the unit like the mib2 high not on an SD card.

The data structure of the off-line maps in the download relates to the text. The fragmentation of the map files and repetition of some of the files we recognise from the standard mib2 unit, that's to say they have adopted the Mib2 standard's indexing method into the geographical data rather than the Mib2 High.

Current material does not make it clear whether Mapcare is abandoned as a product or not on Leon 4s in the UK. German configurator shows Mapcare as "free". Whether there are time-scales to free is not known.

UK configurator 'Online infotainment: 12 month subscription included: Online map update, Online traffic information, Online route calculation, Parking and petrol stations'.

Is it free offline ?.

20200828_072635.png


So there we have it. The standard and high units operate on the same map downloads as each other based on the VW site, these are now more engineered around the standard mib2 file structure than the previous mib2 high. Maps are contained in the unit like the high. The cartography could be loaded from either of the VAG sources Here or TomTom. Does not necassary mean the the unit is more of a standard than a high, just that the database indexing is similar to the standard.

The Home / cog wheel / System Information as above gives you the map version. For anyone with the system a comparison of that with the gleaned VW one as per the download, may place the units map against the VW site. Updates via the car online system. If Mapcare was a part of the system and was due to run out knowing you had a more up-to-date system than the VW would give a chance at a workaround if one existed. Any overall.nds files would be in an older version than the one in the car. That component would be the one to use if indeed a workaround is available and is required. I don't reckon a workaround is likely on the input given the signed package upload in the file PACKAGE.SLIST - think that's the check. If Mapcare is still operable then it's going to be a FEC adjustment as the MIB2 High. Check on the FECs may also resolve whether Mapcare FECs have vanished which would be good news. They don't appear on Skoda units these days.

Time will probably tell on what has happened to Mapcare in the UK on Mib 3, whether map updates are free for offline or not. Online is pay. Offline they are free in Europe given that Mapcare is shown as free on Seat Germany, so assume it's the same deal as VW and Skoda for them or is it time limited to a year say ?. That just leaves the question of whether Mapcare is now "free" in the UK ie. Scrapped for Mib 3.

Thinking about putting dealer spin to one side the only way of sorting this out is the scientific method ;), take the VIN of vehicle with the new system, look it up on ErWin scanning the build codes for 'Mapcare'. Also get the FEC codes up on the infotainment screen if they have not moved away from that. The Mapcare ones have a format pattern, 0XXyyyy etc (currently 073 & 074 for Seat high and standard). If neither the build codes mention Mapcare and we can not see Mapcare type of FEC codes then it will be looking good. Currently build codes for mib2 mention Mapcare with duration or without when the complementary one year one was not on UK cars. It will be bad news if a fixed duration is found or without mapcare. Not mentioning Mapcare is the best outcome that's if you dont want to cough up on paying an annual Seat eSim connect fee whatever that will be which will cover online updates.

Further reading, VW Mib3 maps on the Passat are updated twice a year, four times via the eSim. See whether that comes to Seat. Suspect the VW preferred site map source for off line, uses the same sequencing file structure so it can be taken from there rather than the Seat map download site. A visual check on the maps revealed Mib3 maps used Here Maps Cartography but an older version to the Mib2 High VW 184 at this time, in keeping with Seat maps lagging behind in the release (Sept 2020 car in a dealership).

Seat call them all Navigation Plus now in mib3 form. Some are more Plus than the other. The old mib2 plus had 3D building annotation on it, the mib2 high, this had the build code ZN2 on the mib2 high, still ZN2 on the mib3 plus. The standard has the code ZN1. Notably nothing in the glove box. ZN2 should be visible with SD card slot(s). Playing music via the new mib3 "standard" ZN1 via CD or SD will be curtailed. Still got USB-C with a dongle one suspects.

I posted up two build code lists on the Leon 4 thread which I got via a VIN lookup, if anybody is interested.

 
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I have an MIB1 with the attached maps. I'm new to all this how do I update them and can I even update them? View attachment 17872
Not a DIY task. A dealer unregisters your card with the unit and re-registers a new card about £120 or something. People that love their car more than their mib1 unit treat it to a mib2 (retrofit) then you can update the maps to your hearts content with the workaround or the FEC might be written to a high value so you can use it as if it has Mapcare for life or get a mib2 high retrofit with the FECs set at a high value for life (although some retrofitters have been known to short change of the map FECs). You can buy the component parts from a retrofitter and DIY if that takes your fancy or get them to do it. The more swash buckling technique if you are really into DIY tasks is to cut the retrofitter out. You read threads on that on the net / blogs. Some people loose their mib2 unit navigation license by doing that since they get component protection removed which looses the map license from the previous car (2nd hand unit) which they have to buy again (The license or go to a retrofitter to sort it out). There are ways around this... You can read all about that on the net. Off topic for this thread.

There are punters in East Europe that want your mib1 to convert so it reads mib1 maps, others process mib1 maps to work with it after modding your unit. No retrofitter in the UK seems to run this modding mib1 business. It's come up on the thread a couple of times probably the same guy. Personally I wouldn't gamble on sending a unit out of the country.

A good example of buying the mib2 components yourself from a retrofitter is on the software thread or you get them to fit it for you. First is like a school boy project waiting for your bits to arrive and then doing some construction, the tricky bit is left to them of getting the components to sell you and the software mods done, or getting them to do the lot or as I said embarking on the whole process - popular thing when mib2 came out with pit falls (the complete school boy project - did build a teletext decoder from ICs and a Nascom computer in the day ;) ).

Retrofit whether a standard or high ?. Some people retrofit a mib2 high in place of a mib1 standard. More refined unit, make sure your navigation FECs get set high.


Post 661 is an example of a retrofit. Other UK retrofitters out there. But you see the component parts in the package. Face plates, looms etc.


Depends on DIY skills. This thread is more about the map software and map updates.
 
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CupraRST

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Feb 25, 2020
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@Tell
It took some time before I could try to update my maps, because I wanted to do this while driving (without using the nav).

My starting point was V03959802MN0172 ECE 2019 (in Navi Plus)

20200907_150819.jpg


First I tried to update with the downloaded files from the VW site, from package P187_N60S5MIBH3_EU_NT.7z
But whatever I tried, the files were never recognised. Don't know why.

Then I tried with the files from EU_HIGH_T176.zip , downloaded from the SEAT site.
This worked, within 35 minutes the maps were updated from 072 to X176.

20200907_163136.jpg


But the big question now is what could be the reason the VW update didn't work, because no files were detected by the system. Should I rename files and/or maps? It was a different SD card, but the size of both is 32 GB and the file system is FAT32 on both. Help would be highly appreciated, thank you!
 

CupraRST

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Feb 25, 2020
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WOW, I just compared the directory structure on both SD cards. Found out that it contains about the same directory structure and files, except that the whole structure in the root of the SD card with the SEAT maps is found also on the SD card with VW maps, but this time not in the root, but in a directory (named after the dowloaded file).
Strange, because I unpacked it from the HDD to the SD card with 7Zip, just like the instructions on the VW website. Never compared it though.....

I will copy the content from the SD card to the HDD, empty the SD card and copy everything from the first directory back to the root of the SD card. I guess it will work then. I hope, fingers crossed!
 

Tell

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I was going to message you since I noticed a German Skoda forum was moaning about the VW site. It was fine for me and others circa June and on. At some point they introduced something so people started to use the Skoda site. Not sure whether they corrected it. Like hot cakes best to take it fresh out of the oven with others in June.

If you have no luck try the Skoda link I put up but servers can be problematic on that one. VW run the best when they don't mess up what they should have put up.

Not at home but you need to present all the download as mib1 and mib2 as per the VW notes bottom of the VW site. Not one down etc of the route via the file name as as you say. Only the metainfo is on the route and mib1 and mib2 next level down, side by side. Nothing else.

Those Mac instructions if using a Mac. Once you have it working, next time round you do the same.

You are probably right they currently have it packaged up incorrectly at one level down, shifting that may fix it or use the Skoda direct link to the download:


The unit validates the import via the VAG SLA1 hash signature on the private key using the public key. Impossible to import anything into it that isn't valid since nobody to my knowledge can construct the signatures since the private key hasn't been cracked. I will check what's on the VW download later in the week when I get home to see whether it's one level out with what was on it in June. 7zip package has an option to compute the hashes of the files, you compare these with one another and that's the byte for byte comparison of what's in the files (that's the first stage of the signature check). That's the one that seals the deal on whether VAG map downloads are identical between the brands or different. That's the technical check that people do not that the byte sizes of the files are the same.

They are supporting mib1 standard & high, mib2 standard & high plus mib3 and moved over to Lighthouse server name which is probably when they incorrectly loaded up the mib2high stuff... you'd never think I earned a living out of QAing software at one point in ones career. :unsure:... also why I suspect Mib3 is a bit stuffed for a user workaround since a signature file seems present... perhaps I'll have to do the manual method which uses the public key to validate that that the hash of the files ties in. You just can't recompile the signature without the primary key.... clever stuff. That simulates what the unit is doing before it does the import... put that up on the thread for interest... it's after I drew a blank with altering the mib2 high input files :oops:. So then found out why.
 
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CupraRST

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Feb 25, 2020
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Well, moving all directories and files one level up did help. The files were recognised and 35 minutes later the update was ready.

20200908_135607.jpg


What remains is the question where the wrong level could come from: Was it in the downloaded file, was it made by 7zip, or was it me by agreeing too fast with the automatic settings made by 7zip?

I'm happy with the resulting uptodate maps and I know now what to do next time. Thanks again @Tell !

One question though: How can I get (and update) warnings for (speed) camera's into the Navi Plus?
 
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Tell

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I'll have a look at that download to see whether they have dropped it down a level given that some people were having issues and add a note in case on the resources element of this. Glad you got it working. November will be the next time.

Not sure whether you have any good commercial speed camera databases in the Netherlands, use Poinspector and Pocket GPS World Speed camera database here which covers world wide cameras community sourced.

A link and resource:


I talk about fixed and mobile cameras pros and cons of commercial, free etc. You can also import your destinations this way which can be useful or any other specific ov2 database gps POIs. Like say national trust here. I update my speed camera every six months or so, database is more frequent than that and destinations as required. A bit more work to set up but once setup easy enough to use. Poinspector takes the place of the VW deleted web tool.
 
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CupraRST

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First: I have to say sorry for all the fuzz about the "VW map download - unzipping with 7Zip - copying to SD procedure". During trying to replicate I found out that I was to fast clicking okay to unzip. I overlooked a tick box saying "unzip to directory X (X = name of the package)". That's why all directories and files were one level down.....
Shame on me, but at least I know now what to look out for.

Thanks for the link to the article https://www.seatcupra.net/forums/resources/uploading-speed-camera-safety-camera-user-pois.12/
It's an interesting read. Not as easy as I thought it would be. First I have to find a trustfull bundle of POI's for the Netherlands (+ western and central Europe).
Why doesn't VAG offer that option? Would that be because of different laws in most countries, making usage (or even installation) legal or unlegal?
 
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VAG doesn't seem too keen on speed camera databases. The Pocket GPS World ones do cover Europe as well plus the naughty ones where you aren't suppose to use speed camera warning equipment. France and Switzerland, toggle to turn off the download. I've found them point out the French ones well with mobile cameras waiting, hidden cameras in bollards etc. Basically the project is run out of the UK but contributed to across the globe. That includes designated fixed cameras and where mobile cameras have been seen. Choice them.

SCDB is a commercial European one. They sell the VAG download directly but you can't add your extra ones of anything else. Poinspector reads in the standard POI file format and produces the VAG upload. Spain, Seat forum people have their own based on published speed camera locations. The chap who does that uses Poinspector. Someone was trying to get me to do an Irish one, bowed out of that based on published Irish data. Real issue is to get the mobile locations as well as fixed. Think there are some knock off ones doing the round in the UK but the issue with any is the basis of them. GPS Pocket World community ones have a low annual cost which offset against a speeding fine, pay for themselves.

It is easy enough to use Poinspector once you set up the icons... you will see on the discussion thread. As I said I also import my favourite destinations in that way so they go in as coordinates, appear on the screen as *'s. You tap then save as a destination (Old Skoda trick I was told about). So they appear both on the screen and in the destination memory. Travelling across Europe you have your favourite stopping off places, hiking places etc so you got them nicely catalogued. That's a use for it.

The other useful piece of Android software I use is Map Cordinates N45, E25. That generates coordinates in both the standard decimal degrees and degrees, minutes and seconds. The latter is what you dial into the car, former is the PoInspector one. It integrates into Google Maps and Openstreet (crowd sourced). Former is good for commercial, latter for outdoor activities. You toggle. You can find car parks for outdoor activities, camp sites etc on Openstreet that you won't find in Google Maps (They can't money-orise those too well so get left out). You do get access to the Google Street view so you can peekaboo places. Illustration of Openstreet map attached.
 

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Mib3 Update Map News

Syphon asked his central Seat contact about Mapcare in the UK on the Mib3. You have the first year then it's cough up circa 120 Euros a year for an update - so no change there.

We still I don't think know how much the online service is via the connected car and what's included. Doesn't appear on price lists I've seen.

Equally with VW and Skoda owners that get free Mapcare for life hasn't been achieved yet.

Once people get their cars it would be good to find the Cog wheel menu for map import and what the VW Passat 2019 / 2020 import gives. I reckon the car is shipped with old maps inline with the mib2 high maps from Seat v VW. It would be good to find out whether you can still use the timely VW imports in Mib3 flavour or whether they are rejected.

Need photos obviously of before and after. You would think if you messed it up it would restore back from Seat servers. Depends whether the version numbering works and whether the Cog page of the manual is correct.
 
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